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How Sad! :(

Historical capture recovered from the Wayback Machine · captured 2008-05-06 · 2 of 4 pages survived · 41 posts
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Baltimore Woman Shot in Head, Killed, for Refusing to Give Man Cigarette
Monday, May 05, 2008

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BALTIMORE — Baltimore police said a city woman was shot in the head and killed after she and her companion refused to give a man a cigarette.

29-year-old Dawn Shipley and a male friend were approached by a man asking for a cigarette shortly before 1 a.m. Saturday, according to police. When he was refused, the man drew a gun and shot Shipley. Her friend was not hurt.

Shipley died later at an area hospital.

Her loved ones held a candlelight vigil Sunday at the location where the shooting took place.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,354184,00.html

This bothers me because how many people have walked up to me asking if I had a cig over the years. And they just kill your loved one.
Post edited by ~~Snake~~ at 5/5/2008 12:49:55 PM
Smoking kills!
Here's another really sad story that I saw yesterday:

Originally posted by: CBS
(AP) A pregnant teller shot in a bank robbery has lost the twins she was carrying, and police continued to search for the gunman Friday.

Katherin Shuffield, who was five months pregnant, was critically wounded when a masked gunman shot her in the abdomen Tuesday morning at a Huntington Bank branch. Authorities and the family had said the bullets had not hit the twins.

But complications had set in, and one twin was born dead and the other died after birth, said Marion County's chief deputy coroner, Alfarena Ballew.


From here

I seem to recall on another site with this story that he refused to allow her coworkers to call 911 while she bled.

TWL|Questor
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I've had too many friends who quit. No they didn't quit smoking, they quit BUYING cigarettes, they just mooch. I'm sorry, but at $4 a pack, the only person getting my smokes is me or someone I know very very very very very well.

At least the guy will get help in prison and be able to stop smoking.
How sad as well That sucks Questy. I can't even imagine losing my wife or kids like this. Im starting to worry more about the people I care about as I get older. Sucks
we do live in a very violent society.

we are practically an islamofascist state i guess, if you can't beat em, join em.

we may as well give up now samuwell!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The right is more virtuous than the left. They have twice as many virtues because they have double the standards.

Originally posted by: Hanni

At least the guy will get help in prison and be able to stop smoking.


the best help for this guy is the electric chair, life is too good for him

"It is the tragedy of the world that no one knows what he doesn't know - and the less a man knows, the more sure he is he knows everything."

Joyce Cary
Originally posted by: ~~Snake~~
How sad as well That sucks Questy. I can't even imagine losing my wife or kids like this. Im starting to worry more about the people I care about as I get older. Sucks


I worry so much every day about stupid shit happening to my family, that I've thought myself to be a hypochondriac (sp?).

Well, about the health and safety of my family anyway.
Post edited by -=TIO=- Fluffytuff at 5/5/2008 1:11:29 PM



--------------------------------------
"You are not a hero to the world unless you are first and foremost a hero to your children." -Rabbi Shmuley Boteach
I would say if you are going to be walking around at 1am in dangerous areas, you should be armed in this day and age.

But you need to be street smart in general. As you see a guy like this approaching, cross the street ahead of time. If he crosses too, and continues approaching you, be ready to pull out your firearm, and shoot him, before he can shoot you.

If he's walking up behind you, you can always act like you knew the guy who just drove by, to turn around, to check things out, without letting the perpetrator know you are actually checking him out. Then cross the street if needed, or even act like you forgot something and walk the opposite direction after you cross the street. Anything to not leave you vulnerable to an opportunist.

You have to be safe. I personally like staying in areas where I don't feel I need to be armed on my person. Because I have a big, heavy gun.

One thing is for certain. The police will *never* be able to protect you in these situations, as they can't protect every single person in the world at the same time. You need to be able to protect yourself at all times. That's your responsibility.

I've only been heldup at gunpoint twice, and believe me it is a tad scary having a shiny gun pointed at your gut. So glad I don't live in shitty neighborhoods anymore.
Let me ask you guys this...

If I have a concealed weapons permit, can I wear a pistol as a sidearm in plain view? Or, how do you carry it around while in Wal-Mart for instance?


--------------------------------------
"You are not a hero to the world unless you are first and foremost a hero to your children." -Rabbi Shmuley Boteach
Originally posted by: -=TIO=- Fluffytuff
Originally posted by: ~~Snake~~
How sad as well That sucks Questy. I can't even imagine losing my wife or kids like this. Im starting to worry more about the people I care about as I get older. Sucks


I worry so much every day about stupid shit happening to my family, that I've thought myself to be a hypochondriac (sp?).

Well, about the health and safety of my family anyway.

Yea. I never was this way a few years ago, but since my dad died I worry all the time about where my gf is, is my mom locking the house, etc. I guess its a double edge sword. I try to be smart about keeping my family safe, but it eats at me. I feel better that Im armed but its still just a dangerous world
Originally posted by: -=TIO=- Fluffytuff
Let me ask you guys this...

If I have a concealed weapons permit, can I wear a pistol as a sidearm in plain view? Or, how do you carry it around while in Wal-Mart for instance?


State laws differ. In my state I carry my firearm with me anywhere I go. Obviously if they have a sign that says no firearms you have to decide. As I mentioned, I got one business owner to change his policy. I know some people that carry everywhere even though its illegal because they don't want to be without their firearm if someone tries to harm their family.

But if you have a CCW you must keep it conceiled unless the owner of that property is OK with it being out
Post edited by ~~Snake~~ at 5/5/2008 1:28:51 PM
How do you conceal it though? Put it in your pocket? Jacket? Under your arm like a detective? Right above your ass under your shirt?


--------------------------------------
"You are not a hero to the world unless you are first and foremost a hero to your children." -Rabbi Shmuley Boteach
Originally posted by: -=TIO=- Fluffytuff
Let me ask you guys this...

If I have a concealed weapons permit, can I wear a pistol as a sidearm in plain view? Or, how do you carry it around while in Wal-Mart for instance?


You may want to check SLEDs website about that...


http://www.sled.sc.gov/SCStateGunLaws1.aspx?MenuID=CWP#5
SECTION 23-31-220. Right to allow or permit concealed weapons upon premises; signs.

Nothing contained in this article shall in any way be construed to limit, diminish, or otherwise infringe upon:

(1) the right of a public or private employer to prohibit a person who is licensed under this article from carrying a concealable weapon upon the premises of the business or work place or while using any machinery, vehicle, or equipment owned or operated by the business;

(2) the right of a private property owner or person in legal possession or control to allow or prohibit the carrying of a concealable weapon upon his premises.

The posting by the employer, owner, or person in legal possession or control of a sign stating “No Concealable Weapons Allowed” shall constitute notice to a person holding a permit issued pursuant to this article that the employer, owner, or person in legal possession or control requests that concealable weapons not be brought upon the premises or into the work place. A person who brings a concealable weapon onto the premises or work place in violation of the provisions of this paragraph may be charged with a violation of Section 16-11-620. In addition to the penalties provided in Section 16-11-620, a person convicted of a second or subsequent violation of the provisions of this paragraph must have his permit revoked for a period of one year. The prohibition contained in this section does not apply to persons specified in Section 16-23-20, item (1).


Sounds like it is up to the individual business. If I remember WalMart does not allow them.

Heres another important fact:
SECTION 23-31-225. Carrying concealed weapons into residences or dwellings.

No person who holds a permit issued pursuant to Article 4, Chapter 31, Title 23 may carry a concealable weapon into the residence or dwelling place of another person without the express permission of the owner or person in legal control or possession, as appropriate. A person who violates this provision is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction, must be fined not less than one thousand dollars or imprisoned for not more than one year, or both, at the discretion of the court and have his permit revoked for five years.

Post edited by X26 at 5/5/2008 1:36:12 PM
Originally posted by: -=TIO=- Fluffytuff
How do you conceal it though? Put it in your pocket? Jacket? Under your arm like a detective? Right above your ass under your shirt?


I have a Galico holster thats called IWB"Inside the wasteband" So it sits on my side at an angle on the inside of my pants.




Post edited by ~~Snake~~ at 5/5/2008 1:35:45 PM
Originally posted by: -=TIO=- Fluffytuff
Let me ask you guys this...

If I have a concealed weapons permit, can I wear a pistol as a sidearm in plain view? Or, how do you carry it around while in Wal-Mart for instance?


I don't know about your State, South Carolina, correct? But, in Alabama the law is like this: You do not have to have a CCW to carry a pistol in the open. As in, I can have one on my hip and walk through walmart (I've seen it). However, if you choose to conceal it you must have a CCW. As for in a vehicle, I'm not entirely clear. I don't think you have to have a CCW to have a gun in your car, but you need to have one to hide it under the seat or in the glove box or wherever.
Originally posted by: -=TIO=- Fluffytuff
Let me ask you guys this...

If I have a concealed weapons permit, can I wear a pistol as a sidearm in plain view? Or, how do you carry it around while in Wal-Mart for instance?


It depends Fluffy. What is more important to you, local law, or Constitutional law ?

Because the 2nd amendment acknowledges that every American has the individual, inherent right to bear arms. There is 1 person here who will disagree that bear means carry in that context, and will proceed to copy/paste all of the other definitions of bear from dictionary.com, because this provides their argument with greater cogency.

But if you are a common, practical man, you probably understand that bear does mean carry, and yes that arms means guns.

So anywhere in public, in the United States of America, you can bear your arms. Our Constitution acknowledges this right.

A side argument the anti-gun nuts like to support, is that bearing your arms means bearing it only on the outside of your clothing, or carrying it in your hand. They assert that you cannot where it in any holster, but only a belt holster.

I find that argument to be absurd, especially when you consider the outdoors. A shoulder holster is a great, efficient way to bear your arms, without it getting caught on anything, which could lead to an accidental discharge, and men really hate that.

Another great holster imo is an ankle holster. I've never tried one on before, but they seem fairly efficient if you stay out of water.

Those seem like practical methods of bearing your arms.

Now, here is the crazy part. There are actually states in this country that make it illegal to bear your arms even on the outside of your body. These folks also like to suggest you are required to pay a fee to even just carry it on the outside of your body. To those people, I suggest for consistency that it is entirely Constitutional to charge a fee to exercise *any* right, and would sincerely love to eventually here a really, cogent argument in opposition to that.

So it depends on your view of whether unconstitutional state laws trump the Constitution.

It makes it hard to answer your question because not all states honor the Constitution. When you are in that state, you aren't really an American any longer, similar to going to an airport.

Wal-Mart is owned privately. So to answer that question really depends on if you have any principle concerning private property. Do they really own it ? If they do, then you go under their contract to go onto their property, but you still own your own body while you are on their property. I'm not really sold entirely on how many rights you can give up just by going into contract to go onto someone else's private property. They certainly don't get to anally rape you just because you are on their property. But can they say you can't come onto their property if you are armed ? Probably so if you think it out with a strong desire to avoid any hypocrisy when you are at your final conclusion.

An educated, thinking jury would be able to deduce the best answer, if they were allowed to be able to be told of the existence of our Constitution in statutory jurisdictions that aren't mentioned in the Constitution. And I'd put more faith in their conclusion than any SCOTUS that believes regulating interstate commerce and taxation means the government can do anything it would like, negating any limitations set on it in the Constitution they ignore.
Ankle hosters are not great Molim. Takes too much time to lift you pant leg, bend down, retreive the firearm and acquire your target.

they are certainly comfortable, but not practical IMO
I knew molim was going to through in the 2nd amendement crap. Who cares, at an instance where something happens, you have to deal with state/local law.
Originally posted by: X26
I knew molim was going to through in the 2nd amendement crap. Who cares, at an instance where something happens, you have to deal with state/local law.


Originally posted by: Mr. Chief Justice MARSHALL, Marbury vs. Madison

Between these alternatives there is no middle ground. The Constitution is either a superior, paramount law, unchangeable by ordinary means, or it is on a level with ordinary legislative acts, and, like other acts, is alterable when the legislature shall please to alter it.

If the former part of the alternative be true, then a legislative act contrary to the Constitution is not law; if the latter part be true, then written Constitutions are absurd attempts on the part of the people to limit a power in its own nature illimitable.

Certainly all those who have framed written Constitutions contemplate them as forming the fundamental and paramount law of the nation, and consequently the theory of every such government must be that an act of the Legislature repugnant to the Constitution is void.

This theory is essentially attached to a written Constitution, and is consequently to be considered by this Court as one of the fundamental principles of our society. It is not, therefore, to be lost sight of in the further consideration of this subject.

If an act of the Legislature repugnant to the Constitution is void, does it, notwithstanding its invalidity, bind the Courts and oblige them to give it effect? Or, in other words, though it be not law, does it constitute a rule as operative as if it was a law? This would be to overthrow in fact what was established in theory, and would seem, at first view, an absurdity too gross to be insisted on.


Meaning, if a state government makes it illegal to bear your arms, then that law is void. It does not exist, and it is not to be followed.

You are American, right ? A patriot, who accepts their responsibilities as an American ?
Hey snake, what do you carry on a regular basis. I'm planning on buying the Para CCW .45, real slick. I've also been told that the Spring XD's make nice Conceal Carries...
Originally posted by: |HATE|
Hey snake, what do you carry on a regular basis. I'm planning on buying the Para CCW .45, real slick. I've also been told that the Spring XD's make nice Conceal Carries...


I carry a Smith/Wesson MP9 fullsize. I have shot the Springfrield XD, and not bad. I think the MP is better in several ways. The simplier a gun IMO the better for Carry. My gun is like the glock. Its not gonna go off unless you pull the trigger. So the XD is much like the 1911's. External Safety, grip safety and mag safety. The more stuff you have like that the chances for snagging something, the gun not going off or you thinking the safety is on and firing are all issues.

Para isnt bad. They make some nice guns. Im not a fan of the 1911's overall because they are prone to jamming and very finicky on ammo types. Plus if they do jam you have to recock the hammer because its single action only. You also have to keep the 1911's loaded with the hammer back(cocked)which I don't like as much either.

I would highly recommend you shoot the SW MP9, MP40, or MP45 before you purchase.

Whatever you purchase you should put at least 200 rounds of JHP through it to ensure it doesnt jam and feeds correctly!
Post edited by ~~Snake~~ at 5/5/2008 3:25:50 PM
Originally posted by: |HATE|
Hey snake, what do you carry on a regular basis. I'm planning on buying the Para CCW .45, real slick. I've also been told that the Spring XD's make nice Conceal Carries...
I had an XD short barrel, sure it is small, but to be honest, it was a bit too small for regular use and too heavy for cool conceal so to speak,

i liked the

KelTec P3AT .380 A WHOLE LOT, A LOT.

Zombee told me about its virtues, and he is 100% correct, I loved that little thing.

http://www.gunblast.com/KelTec_P3AT.htm

you get this little guy, you dont need anything else.



----------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by: Coba|t
Originally posted by: Snake
First he has a long history he wants to ban ALL guns. he doesnt agree with the 2nd amendent.
So what do you base these two statements off of?
...Snake's response CAN BE READ HERE, CLASSIC
That guy from gunblast is great to read his reviews. But have you seen the guy? Looks like a hill billy.
Where is a good place to compare handguns, handgun strength, penetration, etc etc?
Originally posted by: ~~Snake~~
Originally posted by: |HATE|
Hey snake, what do you carry on a regular basis. I'm planning on buying the Para CCW .45, real slick. I've also been told that the Spring XD's make nice Conceal Carries...


I carry a Smith/Wesson MP9 fullsize. I have shot the Springfrield XD, and not bad. I think the MP is better in several ways. The simplier a gun IMO the better for Carry. My gun is like the glock. Its not gonna go off unless you pull the trigger. So the XD is much like the 1911's. External Safety, grip safety and mag safety. The more stuff you have like that the chances for snagging something, the gun not going off or you thinking the safety is on and firing are all issues.

Para isnt bad. They make some nice guns. Im not a fan of the 1911's overall because they are prone to jamming and very finicky on ammo types. Plus if they do jam you have to recock the hammer because its single action only. You also have to keep the 1911's loaded with the hammer back(cocked)which I don't like as much either.

I would highly recommend you shoot the SW MP9, MP40, or MP45 before you purchase.

Whatever you purchase you should put at least 200 rounds of JHP through it to ensure it doesnt jam and feeds correctly!


The para i'm looking at isn't the traditional 1911 style, its a flat slap style hammer, double action only, which shares more cosmetic similiarties than function. Check it out sometime, it's a pretty smooth pistol, and built for concealed carry. Never been a big fan of the glocks, it just never really fit me very well.

On duty we carry the Beretta 9mm, and i used to own a Tauras 9mm that i liked, but i dont think i would carry those, and trust them to truly protect me and my family if something went down.

Come to think of it, i think i'll just buy a 12 gauge supershorty and tote it under my trenchcoat of justice with two .45's on my leg, and seek vengeance upon all the towels out there.

Originally posted by: Hotniks
Where is a good place to compare handguns, handgun strength, penetration, etc etc?


Go to an indoor range. If you are looking for actual lab results of the weapons, i'm not too sure. Even then, you wouldn't need to research the weapons, but the actual rounds you use.
Bullet in the back of the head for that scumbag. He's not even human to do such as thing. Same thing for the bank robber who murdered the tellers' twins.

Have the trial, and when they're found guilty, take em outside the courtroom, line em up against the wall, and shoot them in the back of the head.
Originally posted by: |HATE|
Originally posted by: Hotniks
Where is a good place to compare handguns, handgun strength, penetration, etc etc?


Go to an indoor range. If you are looking for actual lab results of the weapons, i'm not too sure. Even then, you wouldn't need to research the weapons, but the actual rounds you use.


Yeah I can go to the range, but I meant like an online reference, like charts or something showing the power and accuracy of different caliber handguns.

Like, how is a 9mm compared to a .40? Or a 9mm compared to a .45? So on and so forth.
Again this is Baltimore City it doesnt surprise me one bit.


Crime has run rampant over there for decades and decades.
Originally posted by: Hanni
I've had too many friends who quit. No they didn't quit smoking, they quit BUYING cigarettes, they just mooch. I'm sorry, but at $4 a pack, the only person getting my smokes is me or someone I know very very very very very well.


I hate those people as much as anyone. I always get hit up and before I know it a pack is gone, fuck them, I'm gonna start saying no too.

If I have one gripe about my Democrat-led state government is their measures on tobacco. I understand what it does for public health, but it sucks for the rest of us. Last summer taxes on a pack of smokes or a can of dip went up $1. Doesn't sound too horrible, but it adds up fast as hell... I spent $5.57 on a pack of P-Funks today. I buy my dip in bulk off the internet for about 40% of what I'd pay in Iowa. The second blow was last month, when they passed legislation outlawing cigarettes in public places. Starting July 1st I'll have to go outside of the bar to smoke a cigarette. I'm not sure you can even smoke on Earth anymore.
Originally posted by: Kal-
Originally posted by: Hanni
I've had too many friends who quit. No they didn't quit smoking, they quit BUYING cigarettes, they just mooch. I'm sorry, but at $4 a pack, the only person getting my smokes is me or someone I know very very very very very well.


I hate those people as much as anyone. I always get hit up and before I know it a pack is gone, fuck them, I'm gonna start saying no too.

If I have one gripe about my Democrat-led state government is their measures on tobacco. I understand what it does for public health, but it sucks for the rest of us. Last summer taxes on a pack of smokes or a can of dip went up $1. Doesn't sound too horrible, but it adds up fast as hell... I spent $5.57 on a pack of P-Funks today. I buy my dip in bulk off the internet for about 40% of what I'd pay in Iowa. The second blow was last month, when they passed legislation outlawing cigarettes in public places. Starting July 1st I'll have to go outside of the bar to smoke a cigarette. I'm not sure you can even smoke on Earth anymore.


If it is a good bar, they will find a way around it. The local bar I go to will begin charging a $1 lifetime fee to be a member of the private "club", since that is an exemption.

In Illinois, they had an exemption for live theater places. So a bar there encouraged folks to dress up from time to time, and had Shakespeare quotes in a cup at the bar, where folks would take out a quote, and read it.

They won't win, as long as Americans don't bend over.

Eventually, the non-smokers will obtain enough self-control to avoid smoking environments.

From the people I've talked to, this is going to be a big battle here. Some bars will charge a fee to smoke, in order to pay the fines. Several other bars intend to continue allowing smoking entirely, and not paying the fines. I've gone down the discussion path of what will they do once they start shutting off water, sewage, and electricity to your establishments ?

Which then leads to discussions of the non-violent becoming violent. But again, who do you go after in a situation like that ? The legislators ? It sucks kind of that the police would be the ones caught in the middle, but when the government attempts to infringe on your rights, you have to kill them. It does make it difficult when you're not sure who should die though.
Molim, here is a quote, not sure if you've heard it, but it makes one of the best points I've seen.

"To ban guns because criminals use them is to tell the innocent and law-abiding that their rights and liberties depend not on their own conduct, but on the conduct of the guilty and the lawless, and that the law will permit them to have only such rights and liberties as the lawless will allow... For society does not control crime, ever, by forcing the law-abiding to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of criminals. Society controls crime by forcing the criminals to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of the law-abiding."
-- Jeff Snyder, Oct 20, 1994
Originally posted by: (SF) DirtyRatFink
Molim, here is a quote, not sure if you've heard it, but it makes one of the best points I've seen.

"To ban guns because criminals use them is to tell the innocent and law-abiding that their rights and liberties depend not on their own conduct, but on the conduct of the guilty and the lawless, and that the law will permit them to have only such rights and liberties as the lawless will allow... For society does not control crime, ever, by forcing the law-abiding to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of criminals. Society controls crime by forcing the criminals to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of the law-abiding."
-- Jeff Snyder, Oct 20, 1994


I haven't heard that quote, and I really like it. Thanks.
Originally posted by: |HATE|
Originally posted by: ~~Snake~~
Originally posted by: |HATE|
Hey snake, what do you carry on a regular basis. I'm planning on buying the Para CCW .45, real slick. I've also been told that the Spring XD's make nice Conceal Carries...


I carry a Smith/Wesson MP9 fullsize. I have shot the Springfrield XD, and not bad. I think the MP is better in several ways. The simplier a gun IMO the better for Carry. My gun is like the glock. Its not gonna go off unless you pull the trigger. So the XD is much like the 1911's. External Safety, grip safety and mag safety. The more stuff you have like that the chances for snagging something, the gun not going off or you thinking the safety is on and firing are all issues.

Para isnt bad. They make some nice guns. Im not a fan of the 1911's overall because they are prone to jamming and very finicky on ammo types. Plus if they do jam you have to recock the hammer because its single action only. You also have to keep the 1911's loaded with the hammer back(cocked)which I don't like as much either.

I would highly recommend you shoot the SW MP9, MP40, or MP45 before you purchase.

Whatever you purchase you should put at least 200 rounds of JHP through it to ensure it doesnt jam and feeds correctly!


The para i'm looking at isn't the traditional 1911 style, its a flat slap style hammer, double action only, which shares more cosmetic similiarties than function. Check it out sometime, it's a pretty smooth pistol, and built for concealed carry. Never been a big fan of the glocks, it just never really fit me very well.

On duty we carry the Beretta 9mm, and i used to own a Tauras 9mm that i liked, but i dont think i would carry those, and trust them to truly protect me and my family if something went down.

Come to think of it, i think i'll just buy a 12 gauge supershorty and tote it under my trenchcoat of justice with two .45's on my leg, and seek vengeance upon all the towels out there.



I think Para are good guns. We have the FBI and several other agencies here that are switching to the S/W MP40 Again, I would recommend it. I dont like glocks at all. I think the triggers suck on them. I also don't like the way they feel in my hand. The MP is the most comfortable gun to hold I own.

Have you shot any Kimbers as well if you are looking at the Para?
I've got a friend that is on the verge of buying a Springfield XD in .45

If he gets it and I get a chance to shoot it in the near future I'll report if it has any issues or not.
Do you guys go out drinking with your gun? Just curious.


Originally posted by: .FieldySnutz.
Do you guys go out drinking with your gun? Just curious.


Never! For one its felony to bring a gun into a place that serves booze. Second, that is a bad judgement call IMO of any gun owner. If you get a dui and have a weapon as well you are in deep shit. Third, if you are drinking your temperment and agitation levels are ripe for trouble or misjudgement in using your firearm.
Originally posted by: ~~Snake~~
Originally posted by: .FieldySnutz.
Do you guys go out drinking with your gun? Just curious.


Never! For one its felony to bring a gun into a place that serves booze. Second, that is a bad judgement call IMO of any gun owner. If you get a dui and have a weapon as well you are in deep shit. Third, if you are drinking your temperment and agitation levels are ripe for trouble or misjudgement in using your firearm.


Just to clarify, that is state law (or even local, I don't know of a full state law that prohibits this). I just know out here in Oregon, that unless they put up a sign forbidding it, you are allowed to take your gun into a bar. My gun instructor, an ex-deputy, told me that. He also implied you shouldn't give business to places that forbid taking your gun with you, as in those places, only the criminals are allowed to carry guns. Makes sense.

I know folks that go camping though, and get drunk, and shoot their guns. Very irresponsible, and it's why I don't choose to camp with those guys

No one would like target practice with me. It's the epitome of safety, to almost an extreme, but I'm typically instilling that value in others, so it is worth it. So much safety setup, preparation, instruction, that the shooting part is just a small part of it. While it's fun, the point is to gain proficiency with the weapon, to be able to use it like second nature, in the event you need to kill someone.