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TWL admins gone wrong

Historical capture recovered from the Wayback Machine · captured 2005-05-18 · 18 posts
Hey Vix, why did you wait till now, after a full season of hard work, to burn SG like this?

This knowledge of maxpl is nothing new. I repeat, NOTHING NEW. You know its bad what you did to SG and I'm none too happy about that, but what you've done to my friend's reputation is on a different level. And I'm trying my best to restrain my anger here and resorting to a 13 year old spamming flames... but Max is probably the most adamant ANTI-CHEATER out there. I know the history between you two. He is so adamant about sportsmanship and cheating that it has caused him to cross horns with you on many occasions because he felt you weren't a hardliner taking a tough stance. I understand personal ill feelings you hold against max for these unpleasant encounters but to burn him as a witch is low class on a level of epic proportions. Really, someone should write a tragedy novel about this. I could sit here and personally vouche for Max, explaining what he has done for the community on the marketgarden server, how many noobs he's helped with every question they've had, from gaming to reinstalling windows, and how he introduced over 20 fresh people into competition and built them into formidable players...

But lets stick to some facts. Heres a recap of some to make sure everything has been clearly established.

1)Max co-runs the shrub marketgarden server which has pretty much been up since the map came out and is still going strong after wolf's fan base has ditched the game.

2)In addition to any moral convictions Max might have on his own, as an admin of a server than runs on public donations, Max knows he must keep the regulars appeased and to do so must maintain a strict level of sportsmanship, which includes but isn't only limited to cheating.

3)Some 3 years ago, BEFORE Max joined twl, a possible hacker or anti-hacker (doesn't really matter) emailed Max and warned him that the server was vulernable to hacks and implored Max as an admin to become more active in securing the fairplay of the server. The hack, which is the hack in question, was emailed to Max and the source challenged Max to see for himself if the hack worked on the server. So yes max did, and discovered the hack bypassed punkbuster. So max emailed the hack to evenbalance so they could deal with it and update punkbuster. There is an archived thread still in the SG forums regarding this incident. What was he supposed to do? Do nothing and allow the hacking to take place on his server?

4)Last year, Max caught a member of Endless Gaming hacking during a scrim on the SG server. Max request the hack be handed over so he could again submit it to evenbalance. Evenbalance said they were aware of the hack for months and told him they were working on it... right whatever. So, Max went and emailed to every admin he could find, INCLUDING YOU VIXEN, to alert the community of the problem. And you sanctimonious leaders of the wolf community did nothing about it. I believe this is where the bad blood between you max may have started.

5)So Vix, you knew for almost a year know that Max had a hack. Why didn't you ban him then? Why do you take the hardline now? I can't figure out whether you are trying to admit you are a hypocrite or not. Every action you make confuses me more.

6)I know you received that email from Max, which means you have that same hack are your computer. According to your logic, you should now go and ban yourself and save straight face.

7)Max never hid any of this. NEVER!!! It has been open knowledge all along and he would deny nothing. Look at the accusation thread, he came right out and told the TRUTH. This is his reward?

Thanks for killing what life was left in wolf in our corner of wolf. I don't expect you to reverse your decision. Actually, I don't know what to expect from you Vix because you have never shown the same face twice. I want an answer from you. And I hope beyond hope to clear Max's name. After all the help and good times he's provided for our marketgarden community, and for the good he TRIED to do for the competition community, he is the last person to deserve this. Yup, nice guys finish last.

To ASF, congratulations on all the hard work you've put into the season. I'm not going to flame you. You guys achieved a lot. I understand why you are upset and I objectively admit that if I were in your position, I wouldn't be happy at all either. Thankfully I am not because to put it bluntly, your position comes from ignorance.

I post this here because I'm in europe now and can only catch you guys on IRC when I'm already asleep. Again, I'm trying really hard not to flame. I thank you for your time reading and looking forward to your response.
Good post Hun.

You know what the funny thing is about this? It's the rest of SG that is going to have to stick up for Max because he's such a nice guy he'll let himself be run over and not say a word(no offense meant Max). He has done nothing but good for this community, and like Hun said, this is his reward.

As for ASF. Fuck you. That's my congradulations. I hope Si ass rapes you.
Post edited by THE TRUTH at 2/17/2005 12:36:20 PM
Look guys, your disappointment and emotion is understandable but blaming TWL admins for a mistake that your player made is out of line.

Following a no tolerance policy regarding cheat detection is the only way to preserve integrity and eliminate bias in decisions regarding bans.

It sucks but nobody deserves a get out of jail free card if they get kicked for a known cheat in the wolf folder.
*sigh*
Hun, you and everyone else need to step back and think a moment. I have done my level best to see things from your side of the fence. NOW it's time to try and see it from my side.

First of all, I get hax emailed to me from all over. I do NOT EVER attempt to load them or install them. Seriously. Doing that is merely asking for trouble. I tell everyone and anyone that wants to send me stuff to send it but DO NOT INSTALL IT. If Max was one of those that sent me a cheat to investigate, then so be it. The fact that he installed it to test is the same EXACT EXCUSE USED BY NIKON when he was caught the first time.

Now..... can you PLEASE tell me how I am to objectively differentiate between hackers and experimenters and those that lie on IRC and in emails? Just exactly what do you expect me to do?

I have to stand behind the rules of TWL and enforce them. The fact that I seriously did not want to enforce this on Max is beyond the point. I know Max, and know of his contributions. It is TWL's no-tolerance policy that is the only defense our community has. I do not like banning players. Never have, never will. It is part of the job that I signed up to do. I have to enforce the rules. At times this is the most deplorable job I've ever done.

Then again, why am I bothering to explain myself to you? It's because I CARE about the community. I want everyone to know what is going on. All I can do is explain. If you fail to understand, or choose not to, that is your decision.

TWL|V1X3N
TeamWarfare Competition Manager
Email: v1x3n@teamwarfare.com
IRC: #teamwarfare, #twl_rtcw
Originally posted by: HunAryan

because he felt you weren't a hardliner taking a tough stance.


i know this isn't my place, but what exactly is vix doing right now? taking a tough stance by banning someone she would much rather not ban.

my opinion: personal attacks do nothing except lower other's views of you. let's not get off the point.

also, perhaps "maxPL" is a better name to use as m4x!mus has finally gotten the mess cleaned up about his name and it might be a good idea to not be getting the two crossed.
I appreciate your time vix but please, I ask again. Why now? You knew from the first day max emailed you, that he had tested the hack himself. that's not fair to sg that you chose now to enact the penalty.

and yes truth, that is right. max will let himself get publically torched because he's a nice guy. neither can i, or most of the people who know him, sit idley by and watch that happen. I'D RATHER TAKE THE BAN MYSELF than sit here and watch max go through this shit.
Originally posted by: Ulua
Look guys, your disappointment and emotion is understandable but blaming TWL admins for a mistake that your player made is out of line.


Ulua, you have no idea how deep this runs with SG and TWL. SG questioning TWL, cheating, etc., has been going on for as far as my knowledge over 2 years, and I was new to a 3 year old clan at that point. This is just the tip of the iceberg, and you have no clue how deep it really is.

Vixen,

Look, I have nothing personal with you, never have. I treat TWL when it comes to competition the same as I do work, you don't mix work with personal life until after the day is over, and sometimes that means being an asshole to people you like. I could pub with you all day and have a great time, but when it comes to you as an admin, you need to choose your words more wisely when defending your actions:

The fact that he installed it to test is the same EXACT EXCUSE USED BY NIKON when he was caught the first time......I have to stand behind the rules of TWL and enforce them.....
Then why did you let NIKON in your clan AFTER he had been caught if you have to uphold the rules of TWL? Only after the SECOND time he was caught did you uphold the rules of TWL and ban him, and took it then as a shot in the gut and kicked him out of your clan.

Seems to me there is a double edged blade here when it comes to the standards that TWL "Upholds". No admin is accountable for their actions, there is not rock solid set of guidelines that must be followed, and everything is left to personal opinion.
Post edited by THE TRUTH at 2/17/2005 1:55:49 PM
I've been reading these forums regularly since my encounter with the MD5Tool check...

The facts: MaxPL was caught by MD5Tool check with a file used for hacking during a match. He has since been suspended per TWL rules. Unless cleared by PunksBusted, the win goes to 'ASF'.

Now, I would agree with most here that maybe MaxPL got the raw end of this deal. I would most likey side with him as well. Unfortunately, the rules are the rules. I had to go through the process of getting cleared and so must he. Yes it sucks, but that's life.

It's unfortunate that SG must bear the burden as a team. I do think that it's very unsportsmanlike to point the blame on 'ASF' and wish them wrong. Step up, take the punishment, and clear your man for next season.

GL
The fact: Max cared too much about the wolf community and is now being punished. Fine, one man down.

But I still want an answer to my first question. The very first question I posted in the very first line I wrote. I even ended the paragraph there so there would be no confusion. Max could have been banned 2 seasons ago. We would have been upset now, but twl has just politely told everyone in SG that they can go **** themselves. I will keep asking this question until it I get a satisfactory response.
Originally posted by: M4x!mus
The facts: MaxPL was caught by MD5Tool check with a file used for hacking during a match. He has since been suspended per TWL rules. Unless cleared by PunksBusted, the win goes to 'ASF'.
Wrong. He wasn't hacking during a match, only had a file on his computer. And nowhere in TWL's rules does it say that you can't have a hack on your computer. Only that you can't use them.
Post edited by THE TRUTH at 2/17/2005 2:21:09 PM
And for the record, I will reiterate that I personaly harbor no ill feelings towards ASF. They act on the knowledge they have, I accept and expect that. But I'm going to act on the knowledge I have.
Wrong topic.
Post edited by THE TRUTH at 2/17/2005 2:30:42 PM
Originally posted by: THE TRUTH
Originally posted by: M4x!mus
The facts: MaxPL was caught by MD5Tool check with a file used for hacking during a match. He has since been suspended per TWL rules. Unless cleared by PunksBusted, the win goes to 'ASF'.
Wrong. He wasn't hacking during a match, only had a file on his computer.


that's exactly what I said

Let me try it this way....caught with a hack file during a match


Regarless, I hope he gets cleared.
Post edited by M4x!mus at 2/17/2005 2:33:04 PM
Maybe TWl needs to take a look at ALL the rules they have in place, an update them. Because there are rules, nothing against you Vixen, that you said arent really rules, but guidlines.
from a locked thread:
Ok kiddies, this is the 3rd locked post on this topic. Let's please all just grow up. Hunaryan, I hope I answered your question in the other thread. That combined with Vio's post stating our rules plainly and clearly should stop all this nonsense. Pissclams, shut it. Let's keep the attackes to the maps and leave the forums for those who are trying to play the game.


no. here it is again:

why are you banning max now instead of last year?
LAST TIME I WILL EXPLAIN THIS SO LISTEN AND TRY AND REMEMBER:

Nikon was caught hacking in a PUBLIC SERVER. NOT during a match or even a scrim. His excuse was he was "testing the hack and it wasn't deleted." GEE GEE EVERYONE.

Now, remember, that ban was in place for ONE YEAR. Yes, he was banned for a year and was re-instated at the end of that time frame. He requested to be allowed to play and as his ban was over, he was allowed in.

Ok, so now MaxPL gets kicked from a server for what is well-known to be a cheat. How many of you thought Nikon was guilty? How many of you claim MaxPL is innocent? How many of you realise that Max was caught during a MATCH?!?!?!

GET OVER IT. Done is done that's it.

TWL|V1X3N
TeamWarfare Competition Manager
Email: v1x3n@teamwarfare.com
IRC: #teamwarfare, #twl_rtcw
Originally posted by: V1X3N


Now, remember, that ban was in place for ONE YEAR. Yes, he was banned for a year and was re-instated at the end of that time frame. He requested to be allowed to play and as his ban was over, he was allowed in.




Lies. Nikon was caught in May or June of last year, and reinstated only a few months after the fact.
Post edited by Hotniks at 2/17/2005 3:39:46 PM
Hunaryan, I already answered your question. If you don't get it or choose not to, then leave it alone.


cop out. thanks, you just indirectly answered my question and confirmed my suspicions. ggs and gl admining

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