How can we make this ladder better?

I'm working on some rule changes, and config settings...I'd like to get all the current team's input, and also suggestions on what we can do to make this ladder attract more teams and make it more competitive. Post your ideas below...thx

I think the ladder is great the way it is. The only thing i can suggest is to update the rules page to reflect the actual config. People just dont know what they are missing.

yep...working on that, sorry for the confusion...what about headshot damage?, there is a lot of debate on the ICE forums over the default settings. Also, what about the # of lives? more or less? Maps you like, Maps you don't, new map suggestions?
Post edited by FragMan at 12/25/2003 9:04:59 PM

Take headshot protection off!

Head shot protection is for noobs.

Originally posted by: Seadawg^
I think the ladder is great the way it is. The only thing i can suggest is to update the rules page to reflect the actual config. People just dont know what they are missing.

Ok, finally figured out how to update the rules, and have adjusted the panzer setting and lives...let me know if there are any other ambiguities...I did a quick scan, but may have missed something.

How about the pb settings? Yes im picky Fragman.

Thanx Fragman for updating the config information, I'm confirming and updating (if needed) the -[x]-Clan GoatWorld Central Shrub Server late tonight with any revisions you've made.

-[x]-GoatCheese

more knives.

Get rid of limited lives. That's why this ladder hasn't attracted more teams. Also, if you have helmut protection on, you're doing nothing but confirming everyone's belief that shrub is for n00bs who can't handle the real game.
Post edited by The_Wippuh at 1/13/2004 12:49:28 PM

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www.pcLoadLetterWTF.com == #initech on gamesnet == No, no, no, you don't understand. We fixed the glitch!

whats up with the g_headshot 0 setting in the publish twl shrub server settings? Doesn't that turn headshots off????

Oh yeah, the helmet protection is kinda neat for those lucky n00bz who get a headshot in. ... like me.

btw sup sup Wipp, hows the butter?

Wippuh, you may recall or not, that at the start of this ladder there was an Unlimited Lives Shrub Ladder (not sure if it had helmet protection or not), but that Ladder failed to attract enough teams....so I'm not sure if we can say its one single thing like lives or if its just that OSPers just prefer OSP.

Uptaphunk....headshot 0 does not disable headshots. Its a fun mode for Shrub that when turned on (i.e. 1) it means that you can only be killed (or kill) with a headshot.

That ladder failed to attract enough teams b/c you had 8 teams playing limited lives. There were 4 or 5 playing unlimited and it couldn't get to the 8 needed b/c you guys wouldn't budge and neither would we. If you would have gone unlimited there would have been 13+ teams. We were one of the biggest proponents of a shrub ladder, but we had no idea it would be so lame. Instead you have the exact situation you're facing now. The label of a n00b ladder that no one wants to play b/c you take the fun out of shrub and turn it into a ladder that makes RtCW a joke. No skill, just team dm with about a challenge once a month.
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www.pcLoadLetterWTF.com == #initech on gamesnet == No, no, no, you don't understand. We fixed the glitch!

that makes no sense...if people chose this ladder its because they had a preference that was greater than the alternative. I think the teams that play this ladder do so to have fun (as with most ladders), and they're not too concerned about being leet. I've never seen any of the teams that have played and left this ladder complain that it was a noob ladder with no skill, and dm only...and since you don't participate in the ladder I think your just venting your pre-determined bias.

Make it 5 vs 5, Its very difficult to field 8 at one time, and you will most likely get more teams on the ladder. Get rid of all dual objective maps. Just too much camping. Take off helmut protection. Leave limited lives to 7.

or open another 5 vs 5 shrub ladder?

some good suggestions...I'll talk it over with the TWL admins, maybe add a couple smaller ladders for shrub with some of the suggestions noted (lives and no lives, no helmets...etc)

The reason NR left 8vs8 shrub was that we had difficulty fielding 8 guys at one time. Dual objective maps and having DM on every other map just took to long. Frag remember our match with ice on Assault, it just took WaY too long. I would like to request, 5 vs 5, objective with default map time limit and respawn rate, no helmet protection, 7 lives, amd put panzars in with 1 per team with 2 minute recharge rate or somthing long so they are forced to use the panzar strategically..

Keep the no panzer rule.

Originally posted by: RomulusMars
The reason NR left 8vs8 shrub was that we had difficulty fielding 8 guys at one time. Dual objective maps and having DM on every other map just took to long. Frag remember our match with ice on Assault, it just took WaY too long. I would like to request, 5 vs 5, objective with default map time limit and respawn rate, no helmet protection, 7 lives, amd put panzars in with 1 per team with 2 minute recharge rate or somthing long so they are forced to use the panzar strategically..

hehe...good points, but Swimding is right..no panzers must remain. I'll work with the TWL to see about adding a new ladder with these changes...I'm thinking 6 vs 6 tho, gotty maps to start, SW gametype...if we take helmet protection off, and play this in SW mode, we may need to consider taking lives higher (10) to keep the game fast paced...or take them off all together. However, the more we take off shrub features to match OSP preferences...it loses its uniqueness of being shrub....something to consider.

Frag, Good points. No panzars. I think think game type MP with 7 lives would not slow down the game too much since the default timelimits would force them to act. I would really like to see a 5 vs 5 team. But I'm being selfish .

I've requested a 5 vs 5 or 6 vs 6 ladder...I'll see what we get...I'm also considering other changes, that have been discussed in this thread...but first things first, I need to get the ladder opened. If you or your team is interested, post your support.

NR is in if its 5 vs 5

I like the idea of a 5v5 or 6v6 shrub ladder Frag, however, concerning the current 8v8 ladder, I think one simple change could fix a lot of whats wrong. Make it SW. Some of these matches are getting dragged on for rediculous amounts of time, if it were changed to SW, it would force the teams to actually go after the obj and set the time to score the needed points for a win. Trying to attract more clans to a ladder that has matches that have gone on for 8 hours is fighting a losing battle. MOST people play for fun and have lives outside of this game, having matches go on so long completely conteracts any fun I have playing this game. If we were getting paid for that time it would be a different story :o)

SW on Dual objective keeps going. The problem is you need to set a max time for each map. The team with the least amount of skulls, or the highest points wins (this time shouldnt be anything to short but nothing to long.. like 45 min or a hour) If you stop a dual obj map at 0 then the two teams that are camping might have to play 15 rounds of that map

oh yeah no doubt man, I should have included besides going SW, go from duel obj maps to single obj maps. Duel obj maps get too sticky in match play, with no time constraints it just takes too long.

Only the wrong maps take to long... especially with the wrong teams. For example: ASF vs X. That game went on 8 hrs... well ASF vs ICE on the same map went shorter. Or an even better example ICE vs TSG back in the day on Market Garden would last about 1 to 2 hrs max for a match. TSG vs NR lasted over 6 hrs because NR camped the Allied command Center.
And I have never seen a camping team win, It is usually the more aggresive team that wins. If you camp you will lose, maybe not as bad but you will lose

im for 6v6 team

10 vs 10 ladder with one map, tram!

LOL...nien

Head protection absolutely must go. An lt vs a medic doesn't stand a chance. I can't see the point of even having lt's other than serving as ammo bitch for the rest of the team.

I would say a helmut protection... but a low protection... make a H-S worth 40 or 35 hp (that way it would protect 10 hp or 15 hp of the hit) Cause lets face it the helmut isnt supposed to be decoration (concidering you can shoot it off to)

I agree on the helmet protection, lets at least give it a body shot's worth of damage for a helmet hit.
I disagree that lt's are not useful, airstrikes and artillary (although not my bag) are heavily used by lt's in this ladder.
I agree on trying to keep the maps dual-objective because I think that it takes at least 30 minutes for a 6-lives game to play out as a 6-lives game should. In a 10-14 minute 6-lives game its more about just not being stupid with your lives, not a coordinated team effort to keep yourselves alive.

I proposed a thought to Shrub that the mod shouldnt allow medics to self heal...this would prevent the rambo meds and emphasize greater team play...but alas, no response.

How about turn the med pack rate down.... Medics should be able to heal him self just not at these rates

How bout instead of cvar settings that can range from x-x, make um exact settings. Then everyone will be the same. Maybe "Out-of-box" ladder or something. I was thinking of starting a Prozac league, I need some bad!

Gary

Originally posted by: BlutSauger
How bout instead of cvar settings that can range from x-x, make um exact settings. Then everyone will be the same. Maybe "Out-of-box" ladder or something. I was thinking of starting a Prozac league, I need some bad!

Gary

Good suggestion

One thing that would make this ladder better would be more active teams! All of us in the ladder need to encourage other teams we play in other ladders and in league play to join up and get active with us in this one.

Kill ya later,
-[x]-GoatCheese

Well, there are definitely some good suggestions up there. I think that a 6 vs 6 single obj SW ladder would be the best. I am an OSP'er by nature so I don't think that you should get more reward for a body shot than you do for the first head shot..........thats just insane and when you really think about it does lean towards the noobs. Granted in "real" life the helmet would protect some. But in "real" life a headshot would at the very least disorient you or knock you on your ass. Headshots are hard, it takes alot of time and practice to get them down correctly and people who can get them consistently deserve to be rewarded with higher hp damage. As I believe HunAryan said, putting helmetdamage on.......lets say 30hp, really levels the playing field and takes the advantage away from Medics who can run around with 300 rounds and unlimited health. I really feel that if these things are addressed this ladder would have 30 + teams in it.
The Golden One

i think the time limit thing would be good. maybe 20 min. after that who ever has the most sculls wins.. if you start changing alot of things in this ladder you will get ppl like me that dont want to play here. change can be good but to change a ladeder after its started, and changing it as much as you guys are trying to is wrong. We should play it the way it was set up to play. starting new ladders and put new rules into those ladders that you want to change for next season. We all new the rules when we started this ladder, and joined it knowing those rules. changing the rules changes the game. So then this wouldnt be the ladder i/ others signed up for. make new ladders not change old ones. it seems that if you started new ones that other ppl would join them so just fix whats wrong with this ladder by makeing a new one, and then make small changes to this one after the season is over. agian i think the hole thing has become very stupid/childish. its like when you play tag as a child. we can just change the game alittle to make sure your not it, or you can unfreeze after you say some stupid little saying. Play the game the way its was set up to play. start new ones to fix the problems with this ladder.