How to make things better.

I am bored at work with no phone lines (thank god because I know customers are calling with claims). Therefore, I decided to read the forums and I have read some stupid crap. Therefore, I thought I would express my opinions and thoughts.

Some of the issues that I see are as follows

1) Endless amount of people re-aliasing and getting back into comp after being kicked that are already banned.

2) People trying or using hacks.

3) Kids being kids with their "it is all about me" behavior

4) With the consistent ettv lurking, eventually people will pull the ettv servers.

The way I see it, some people are already permanently banned from competition. Not much more, you can do to them; they will continue to be jackasses. From my point of view, TWL can go down two avenues.

First, they can shut down their ET operations. Why put forth an effort for a somewhat terrible community that obviously does not care.

Second, they can turn ET into an invite only competition. Meaning, the only way you can play in the competition is by an invite from the TWL ET admins. The only way you can alter your roster is by a TWL ET admins approval.

With the second method, they can reach out to the people and teams that do care and make a level of competition for them. The TWL admins and community should know by now, who the problem people are. In all honesty, new teams and players are a rarity. Most of the time, a new account will equate to someone banned from competition. So take that avenue away from them or put that avenue under heavy scrutiny that any new player coming into comp has to go through a screening process of the TWL admins.

In regards to ETTV, the server that the players are playing on. Make the size of the server just enough for the people that need to be present from the two teams (12 or 10). If the team has spectators, they can watch from ETTV. Make other slots on the server private that only TWL admins and ETTV admins should have. This will take away the chance of someone connecting and disrupting the match while in progress.

In regards to people caught hacking, put every player on the team they play with on probation. If another player associated with the team is caught, suspend the whole team.

With the second method, you will probably run the league with fewer teams, however, you will have less headaches and the league should run a bit smoother with people that actually want to play within the framwork of the rules.


Sean

to add to my additonal rambling, another area that could improve is not to have any involvement with Et-center.com

All Et-center.com does is fuel the wannabe thugs and provide them with a forum to show their "leetness". Take this avenue away from them and have your admins not respond or involve themselves with that forum or website.

If there was a way that you could keep the league information private, that would be best. Make it so only the teams playing and involved know the schedules, ettv events and league hapenings because in the end, isn't that what really matters. That the people playing in the league have the best enviornment for a clean and fun league.

I concur, great ideas hammer.
This is one Badass Sig buddy

Originally posted by: `Kami
I concur, great ideas hammer.

I just wonder if there is enough interest in this game still.

Originally posted by: BYE|TheHammer
Second, they can turn ET into an invite only competition. Meaning, the only way you can play in the competition is by an invite from the TWL ET admins. The only way you can alter your roster is by a TWL ET admins approval.

BUMP!!! GOOOOOOOOO THEHAMMER! Right on the money

Originally posted by: Shafty

Originally posted by: `Kami
I concur, great ideas hammer.

I just wonder if there is enough interest in this game still.

ET FTL < WoW FTW

most of the people have been playing wow. ex. myself have gotten to a point where they wanted too see the light and have gone back to et. even though i wont be invited cuz i am horible at et. i think they are good ideas.
Post edited by Flight at 12/5/2006 3:54:47 PM

Originally posted by: `Kami
I concur, great ideas hammer.

~ JeM

Even by making it 'invite only' you still have the trouble of people re-aliasing. Unless you can tie the online ID to some real world info, the smacktards can keep coming back. Secondly, it will put a LOT of load on the admins if they make any effort to verify who the players are. If they don't, it's no different than an automatic system.

Not allowing people to have their specs on the server would be somewhat annoying. However, I can think of several other ways to prevent the lurkers from causing much disruption, perhaps using the lua mod that is already required for twl matches.

One thing I have to say is this community is far to tolerant of asshats. These people are trashing the game you enjoy, yet a lot of people just "oh lol he got caught with a multihack" and continue to associate with them.

This is the first intellegent thread I've seen in this forum in a loooooong time.
TheHammer for ET TWL Pres.

Originally posted by: Shafty
I just wonder if there is enough interest in this game still.

Enemy Territory 3v3 Season 5 League 17 teams
Enemy Territory 6v6 Season 9 League 47 teams
Enemy Territory 1v1 Ladder 48 players
Enemy Territory Campaign Ladder 19 teams
Enemy Territory SW 3v3 Ladder 57 teams
Enemy Territory SW 6v6 Ladder 69 teams

Originally posted by: Teh_reyalP
Even by making it 'invite only' you still have the trouble of people re-aliasing. Unless you can tie the online ID to some real world info, the smacktards can keep coming back. Secondly, it will put a LOT of load on the admins if they make any effort to verify who the players are. If they don't, it's no different than an automatic system.

I understand your point, however, ET does not have the benefit of an ID system. The pool of players that exist now, are about all you will have. There will not be an influx of new players to play the game. If someone says, I have been playing shrub or unpatched. My bet would be it is someone banned from competition trying to get back in. So only allow people that have an active TWL account for over 6 months and is known by the community into the league. Don't allow players to join the teams themselves, make the player contact an admin or send a request in. This way, no one is slipping through the cracks.

Originally posted by: Teh_reyalP

Not allowing people to have their specs on the server would be somewhat annoying. However, I can think of several other ways to prevent the lurkers from causing much disruption, perhaps using the lua mod that is already required for twl matches.

I am not sure what the lua mod does, so I would be ignorant to comment on it or its functions. However, my point is, with displays like that on ETTV, that only encourages childish behavior. It becomes the cool thing to do because they are being noticed. Eliminate that factor and hopefully some of the people will get bored with not being able to be a fucktard and will go away. As I said in my 2nd part, elimante any involvement with Et-center.com. As that just provides another avenue for these morons.

Originally posted by: Teh_reyalP

One thing I have to say is this community is far to tolerant of asshats. These people are trashing the game you enjoy, yet a lot of people just "oh lol he got caught with a multihack" and continue to associate with them.

could not agree more.

Originally posted by: BYE|TheHammer

I am not sure what the lua mod does, so I would be ignorant to comment on it or its functions. However, my point is, with displays like that on ETTV, that only encourages childish behavior. It becomes the cool thing to do because they are being noticed. Eliminate that factor and hopefully some of the people will get bored with not being able to be a fucktard and will go away. As I said in my 2nd part, elimante any involvement with Et-center.com. As that just provides another avenue for these morons.

We currently use a Lua script (that every server SHOULD have if they INSTALLED IT RIGHT!) that will (to quote a wise man) de_stroy any attempts at using Q3Fill to DoS a server.

We've had several measures in place to stop that, but simply got lazy (which is to fill up all the normal slots in the server with admins) Which is why next season, there will be 12 slots for the server, and the slots for us admins, that way we can't get lazy since it'll be a hard setting.

As for the rest of your points, the only thing I can say is "Welcome to the futility of ET." It's not like retail games where an IP and a GUID ban will likely knock you out of action.

If I'm not mistaken, the ETPro folks experimented with a pay2play style system, or just were throwing out ideas at one point. I've wanted to do $5 for a competition CDKey, and it's good for life throughout STA, TWL (and then CAL). That way if some kid really wants to keep hacking, they're just giving us more money which could then be used to buy up private aimbots and get em detected, and all that other fun stuff.

Originally posted by: sponge

Originally posted by: BYE|TheHammer

I am not sure what the lua mod does, so I would be ignorant to comment on it or its functions. However, my point is, with displays like that on ETTV, that only encourages childish behavior. It becomes the cool thing to do because they are being noticed. Eliminate that factor and hopefully some of the people will get bored with not being able to be a fucktard and will go away. As I said in my 2nd part, elimante any involvement with Et-center.com. As that just provides another avenue for these morons.

We currently use a Lua script (that every server SHOULD have if they INSTALLED IT RIGHT!) that will (to quote a wise man) de_stroy any attempts at using Q3Fill to DoS a server.

We've had several measures in place to stop that, but simply got lazy (which is to fill up all the normal slots in the server with admins) Which is why next season, there will be 12 slots for the server, and the slots for us admins, that way we can't get lazy since it'll be a hard setting.

As for the rest of your points, the only thing I can say is "Welcome to the futility of ET." It's not like retail games where an IP and a GUID ban will likely knock you out of action.

If I'm not mistaken, the ETPro folks experimented with a pay2play style system, or just were throwing out ideas at one point. I've wanted to do $5 for a competition CDKey, and it's good for life throughout STA, TWL (and then CAL). That way if some kid really wants to keep hacking, they're just giving us more money which could then be used to buy up private aimbots and get em detected, and all that other fun stuff.

I understand sponge. I appreciate and understand the work that you and the other TWL admins do in keeping competitive ET going. My reason behind this thread is to try and use some creative thinking to figure out a way to make things better for the people that care about playing ET in competition.

The problem does lie with the id system in ET with it being free. I think instead of using an id system through the game. How about making the TWL account some sort of id system and base their ability to play from a) admin knowledge of the individual player and b) length of activity of the account. If it is an account opened up within a month or two. Guess what, that is someone trying to get back in comp after being a jackass because new players are not coming.

Having players have to come to admins to register teams or their ability to join a roster will take away from some of the players that may get overlooked.

Originally posted by: BYE|TheHammer

I am not sure what the lua mod does, so I would be ignorant to comment on it or its functions. However, my point is, with displays like that on ETTV, that only encourages childish behavior.

I agree. My suggestion would be to add something to the lua mod to prevent such displays.

some possible things:
- only allow the GUIDs of TWL admins and the players for that match. Unfortunately, this couldn't be completely automated without adding some hairy stuff to the lua API. As it stands, the TWL admins would probably have to place a list of GUIDs on the server manually. OTOH, it would automate the GUID checks that people rarely do in practice.

- don't allow specs who aren't ref or shoutcaster to chat at all. This would be easy.

Originally posted by: sponge

Originally posted by: BYE|TheHammer

I've wanted to do $5 for a competition CDKey, and it's good for life throughout STA, TWL (and then CAL). That way if some kid really wants to keep hacking, they're just giving us more money which could then be used to buy up private aimbots and get em detected, and all that other fun stuff.

But then you're asking people to pay to play a free game. 80% of the community wouldn't buy it either, even if it means they get to play without hackers.

Post edited by x FuZioN at 12/12/2006 4:43:15 AM

yeah $5 would be a complete economic breakdown for everyone, I can assume.

That kind of reminds me of some of the excuses I hear from people that ask for "sponsorship" for a $20 game server or a $5 voice server.

How do these people that are so poor have a PC and stay connected to the internet (still haven't figured that one out).

You would think some people need to take out a loan to buy a 60 cent taco at taco bell.

/rant off

I would think $5 would be fine for a comp player ID myself.
.

http://www.cssgameservers.com
http://www.cod4server.com
http://www.cssourcegameservers.com
http://www.callofdutyservers.net
http://www.cod5gameservers.net
http://www.cod5server.com

Originally posted by: _Phantom
yeah $5 would be a complete economic breakdown for everyone, I can assume.

Setting up legally and making it easy for everyone to do is non-trivial.

Originally posted by: x FuZioN

But then you're asking people to pay to play a free game. 80% of the community wouldn't buy it either, even if it means they get to play without hackers.

Oh I agree fully. It's more of an idle dream than anything. More likely than not, the idiot of the week will make an ET-C thread on how he has proof that I went to Mexico to go get wasted with the anti-cheat money or something, even if we DO get people to sign up.

Originally posted by: sponge
More likely than not, the idiot of the week will make an ET-C thread on how he has proof that I went to Mexico to go get wasted with the anti-cheat money or something, even if we DO get people to sign up.

Yeah, but when your sitting on the beach sipping margaritas, will you really care what they say ?

when sponge sits on the beach people scream "BEACHED WHALE"


OH SNAP

Originally posted by: WhoopsAzz
when sponge sits on the beach people scream "BEACHED ALBINO WHALE!"


OH SNAP

fixed

Originally posted by: SlAppY-=PLO=-
This is the first intellegent thread I've seen in this forum in a loooooong time.
TheHammer for ET TWL Pres.

Originally posted by: Shafty
I just wonder if there is enough interest in this game still.

Enemy Territory 3v3 Season 5 League 17 teams
Enemy Territory 6v6 Season 9 League 47 teams
Enemy Territory 1v1 Ladder 48 players
Enemy Territory Campaign Ladder 19 teams
Enemy Territory SW 3v3 Ladder 57 teams
Enemy Territory SW 6v6 Ladder 69 teams

how about you look to see how many of those teams are actually active before you post.

Coming from someone who generally will pay for a game to compete in, i dont think $5 is too much to ask, but this is a convo thats been tossed around for years, and will likely end up in the same grave as that 5v5 convo.

Um, there aren't that many less teams than there were 3 or even 4-5 seasons ago. People were saying ET was dead 5 seasons ago. Many the ladder teams were generally neglected then just like now. Also, I'd like to point out that servers like SNL and et-core box are almost always full, even really late at night.

There's still plenty of interest even in the USA scene. Obviously, it's nothing like the huge euro leagues as far as activity goes, but it's still here.

Originally posted by: Teh_reyalP

Originally posted by: _Phantom
yeah $5 would be a complete economic breakdown for everyone, I can assume.

Setting up legally and making it easy for everyone to do is non-trivial.

indeed. We've tossed this idea around many times in the past and its a model we are absolutely not pursuing, from the TWL owners on down, for a lot of different reasons, most of them being legal/logistical. (/end run-on sentence)

The idea of being an "invite-only" league is a problematic issue as well. How can an admin really "know" someone? What is the bar to get over? We've proposed several different "screening" methods at various times in the past, but all of them have pretty obvious holes, or create inordinate amounts of stress on admins.

Also, I don't want to see us turning away new teams because they didn't get into comp earlier. ET is still a very strong pub game, and we still get new teams every season that migrate over from their favorite hangouts. Perhaps if we limited roster changes from very early on in a season, we could reduce the repeat offender rates. With everything else, there are pros and cons.

The admins do the best we can to control what we can (like the ETTV servers - duh - we got lazy). What really REALLY needs to happen is for the community to HELP in policing and promoting the game. Teams should screen new players thoroughly. (We put the "Take a Seat" thread up for more than just entertainment!) Beyond that, vote with your feet - don't support or scrim against teams that choose to bring back the "serial idiots". Promote behavior that BENEFITS the GAME, not MOCKS it.

If you want to play ET long-term - then contribute something to support it. I don't mean you have to give someone money - I mean actively do something that builds the community - be a leader, teach a noob, share your demos, etc. Admins have a big role in keeping a game running day-to-day - but the growth or demise of a game rests almost solely on the shoulders of the community that plays it.

(PS) thanks for bringing some of this stuff up Hammer - you hit some of the problems square on the head. I wish the answers were that easy.

Post edited by Durinia at 12/16/2006 4:16:36 PM

Originally posted by: bd|bliss
Also, I'd like to point out that servers like SNL and et-core box are almost always full, even really late at night.

those are the only etpro servers that manage to stay full so much. my clan got an etpro pub server and it got full maybe once or twice in the few months we had it. it stayed empty just about all the time. manipulated and warp09 also have another server set up similar to SNL but with xp and there arent many people on it. as reyalp mentioned (not sure if it was here or on et-center), few etpro servers stay full because of the 2.60b client update...comp players had to upgrade to play in TWL, but random pubbers didnt have to upgrade...they just went to another server that worked, which was a jaymod/etpub/noquarter server. those mods dont care whether you have 2.60 or 2.60b, only etpro does.
_______________________

Originally posted by: the wierdo
There's nothing like a little child molestation to bring people together and rise above the partisanship

Originally posted by: Pudd¿nheäd
ive been wanting coq for some time now, and im goin for it on sunday!

Originally posted by: Aria Giovanni.pZ
kok. i want kok. lots of kok.

I don't think you realized the point of my statement. I wasn't talking about the activity of ET, I was talking about the activity of this league's competition and players.

Originally posted by: bd|bliss
I don't think you realized the point of my statement. I wasn't talking about the activity of ET, I was talking about the activity of this league's competition and players.

because SNL, and ET-Box reflect competition play.....

I mainly play on euro servers when i pub because theres about 4 etpro 3.60b pub servers. At night there's none.

et-box is allways full it is also where most of the comp players who get caught hacking get caught coincidentaly......hmmmm if you ask me the reason for the demise of this game is that these kids who feel like the only way in life to make friends is to come on a game and hax to look like they are good players.so everyone wants to eccept them into there teams and praise them like they are gods at this game. when the whole time they could wear a blindfold and play when all they have to do is push mouse one and the bot does the rest or camp a wall that they see thru the whole time. and hell whats it matter if they get caught when all the league is going to do is give some smart ass reply like hey mc'shithead no mc'hacking for you sit for 6 months ..... then come back and do it again ok.....while they mask there ip or do whatever it is they do and join rite back up. once a hacker allways a hacker you get caught you get ban bottom line one strike your out. stop making excuses for why these people deserve second chances and get tough. for the hackers get a life there is a whole world outside of moms doors go make freinds not everyone wants to steal your lunch money go out .
Post edited by <:roswell:> at 12/18/2006 7:38:06 PM

Originally posted by: <:roswell:>
et-box is allways full it is also where most of the comp players who get caught hacking get caught coincidentaly......hmmmm if you ask me the reason for the demise of this game is that these kids who feel like the only way in life to make friends is to come on a game and hax to look like they are good players.so everyone wants to eccept them into there teams and praise them like they are gods at this game. when the whole time they could wear a blindfold and play when all they have to do is push mouse one and the bot does the rest or camp a wall that they see thru the whole time. and hell whats it matter if they get caught when all the league is going to do is give some smart ass reply like hey mc'shithead no mc'hacking for you sit for 6 months ..... then come back and do it again ok.....while they mask there ip or do whatever it is they do and join rite back up. once a hacker allways a hacker you get caught you get ban bottom line one strike your out. stop making excuses for why these people deserve second chances and get tough. for the hackers get a life there is a whole world outside of moms doors go make freinds not everyone wants to steal your lunch money go out .

Just to clarify, mr. mc'wall-o-tex, pub suspensions are a full year, and 99% of them never make it that long before getting caught again on a pub and permabanned. Off-hand, I can't remember a single case of a person getting the 1-year, being good the full year to come back legally, and then getting caught again.

But yes, I agree with you that the problem is the people who want their egos stroked.

Originally posted by: Durinia
mr. mc'wall-o-tex

rofl

im sorry durinia i was just sounding off the other day . didn't meen to sound like i was doging the admins .i have quit playing comp for et due to the fact that all i need to do is see a master ban list of over 8,000 players to know when it is a waste of time to compete in the game. and the fact that these people even get a second chance at it piss's me off .young and old a like understand that elegal game play is against the rules and know the price you pay for doing it .so a second chance is the last thing they should get .i understand not all the people on the ban list are leauge players so them numbers are a bad example to base it on but if 1 out of every 100 on there are from leauges thats still 80 and that is only the people who got caught nevermind the people who actualy know how to program and can make an undetectable cheat that is never going to go public so they just blend rite in to the comunity under the radar .because if you make an acusation in this game that you think it is possible so and so uses a hack then every one just laughs at you and claims you are just a noob lol. then a year or two later one of these so called l33t players finaly gets busted and people sit there and say oh man i cant believe that guy cheated i use to play with him. or damn i knew he did it and all of a suddon the whole community knew he was a cheater like it matters then .anyhow im rambling on here dont meen to waste your time just read your post and in re reading mine felt like i worded things a little different then i meant them to be . didnt want to feel like i dissed the admins cause i know it is must be a toughe thing to do with all the bitching and moaning people do .thanks again for the response.
Post edited by <:roswell:> at 12/19/2006 5:09:04 PM

i recommend studying harder in middle school. Maybe even stay after class and get some extra help in english.

Ezdo, he has been caught, stood out his sentence, came back and was perma-banned again for being on the MBL multiple times.

Originally posted by: Warp09
Ezdo, he has been caught, stood out his sentence, came back and was perma-banned again for being on the MBL multiple times.

wrong. he hacked again before his original suspension was served.

:o

Not what I heard

yea, i wouldn't know or anything. :rolls eyes:

umm pretty sure italia was given a year and he came back as kuaii and he is legit and that is not sarcastic, i like him and all too.

he is legit because you have sat in the room with him while he was playing rite?. because unless you have done this he is only as legit as you want him to be in your mind. he must have been one of them non cheaters who were just looking to see what it looked like or something because no one realy cheats they are just curriouse and get caught on the first try. damn what bad luck. rofl......try a game of checkers and play both sides of the board you will never loose it is sooo l33t.just comes with less friends.damn that sucks.

Originally posted by: Shafty

how about you look to see how many of those teams are actually active before you post.

How about no?