T2 14 Man Classic Vote

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Classic Admin

2003-03-11 20:46

The vote is now up as you can see from the front page news. Link to vote is here.

http://www.teamwarfare.com/ballot/

It is an open vote. Biscuit and I talked about how to handle the vote, and the only two options are founders and global, so we decided to go with global.
Post edited by Satoshi at 3/11/2003 9:03:05 PM

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SoulBag

TeamWarfare VetTWL Contributor

2003-03-11 20:55

why global?

Satoshi

Classic Admin

2003-03-11 21:00

Because founder votes don't work. So we decided to go with Global. Those are the only two votes coded right now. Also, I forgot to add, there will be another vote in 2-4 weeks, to add some other maps that are being fixed/modified right now.
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Destiny

Retired TWL Staff

2003-03-11 21:54

stfu and vote

--d3zt1ny

Gumz

TeamWarfare Vet

2003-03-11 22:29

Question 9: Should Damnation be replaced with the version that fixes the flagstand.

^^^ Where can i see that version ive never seen it
MSI K7N2G-L (nForce2) // AMDXP 2200+ // 512 Crucial PC2100
Gainward GF4 Ti4400 // SB Audigy // Logitech z560 400W 4.1
-> My nForce2 System Rig <-
-> 3DMark 2001 SE Scores <-
-> 3DMark 2003 FE Scores <-

Gumz.1
o|-Gumz

-heroin-

never share needles

2003-03-11 22:44

nb4lock

Smaqaho

Tribes2 League Admin

2003-03-11 22:52

Not too bad, but could use a good map to take DBF's place.

No clue why a fucked up damnation would be preferred over the version we've played on for the last 2 years.

Lonewolf63

TWL Member

2003-03-11 22:54

im surprised at the dbf and damnation votes thus far

|Mav|

TWL Member

2003-03-11 23:01

rofl @ the Canyon Run votes

so many people defended this map, yet now its like 66 votes YES to remove it, 20 some votes to NOT remove it. In the end, the safe money goes on YES to remove it, by a fucking landslide.

Worst. Map. Ever.

I feel the need, the need, for speed!

Lonewolf63

TWL Member

2003-03-11 23:07

actually i dont remember anyone defending it

Satoshi

Classic Admin

2003-03-11 23:37

There will be another vote in a few weeks, and there should be a map in there that will replace DBF.
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DarkJedi

i DEMAND a forum title!

2003-03-11 23:52

whats wrong with DBF?
_______________

-IA- DarkJedi
=V=

marantz

TWL Information Minister"We have pulvarized the Infidels!"

2003-03-11 23:53

ok why not just add Starfallen? the number of katabatic-type maps is relatively low, so i dont see why it's an 'add one, remove the other' vote. ????

hcats.

TWL Member

2003-03-12 00:32

I wanted to see a match played on Reversion (X2) before it was removed. I'd like to see that brought into a vote, or is it one of those maps curretly beling modded?

Satan-

im high on life......and crystal meth

2003-03-12 00:38

Why are maps like DBF and Dessicator even considered? What is wrong with them please explain. When shit like canyon run is even considered and then added to the ladder. Theres something seriously wrong when the ladder is heading towards 10 cluster and 6 back cap maps.

Too many map decesions are based off ppl's pub experiences which is wrong!! Most of the choices here shouldnt even be considered and some old decesions reversed. Add maps like drifts, desiccator, ect onto the ladder give it some diversity instead of spam spam spam....fast capper OH SHIT 7 second route. I enjoy this too...but not every damn map.
Post edited by Satan- at 3/12/2003 12:46:51 AM

Captain_Kibitz

TeamWarfare VetTWL Contributor

2003-03-12 00:51

Why are specific maps being put up for removal? Why not have *all* maps be put up for removal?

Blotter

TeamWarfare VetTWL Contributor

2003-03-12 00:51

petition to make it "replace dbf with starfallen", not kata :x

marantz

TWL Information Minister"We have pulvarized the Infidels!"

2003-03-12 00:59

Originally posted by: Blotter

petition to make it "replace dbf with starfallen", not kata :x

signed

Cavalier

TWL Admins love meTWL Contributor

2003-03-12 01:16

Originally posted by: Blotter

petition to make it "replace dbf with starfallen", not kata :x

Harlequin

Pimpin Da HOs

2003-03-12 01:42

Drifts could be fun. Snowblind would have the same gameplay though. A snowy HO fuckfest!

Is Thundergiant on the ladder?

Harlequin

Pimpin Da HOs

2003-03-12 01:46

Hmmm it isn't. Now that is a map that should be added to the rotation. Vehicles. Semi-covered map with forcefields. You can still easily cap with the FF up, but lowering allows for a back cap.

omg a vehicle map with strategery!

Captain_Kibitz

TeamWarfare VetTWL Contributor

2003-03-12 01:50

Let me clarify this voting process for everyone:

1. An admin asks for suggestions on how to improve the map voting process.

2. People respond with their specific map suggestions, as well as suggestions on changing the process by which maps are voted on.

3. Map diversity is voiced as a concern among many players, and an admin claims he will take this into account.

4. jsut lists a breakdown of all the current ladder maps according to:

a) size
b) open/closed flag
c) vehicle/non vehicle
d) uniqueness

Although one of the goals of this whole process was to improve the map diversity in our ladder, the current proposals do not even attempt to address that issue. Below is a statistical summary of the map breakdown before the vote, as well as a summary of the map breakdown after the vote (assuming all proposals pass).

Current Map Diversity
Medium Open Non-Vehicle: 29%
Medium Open Vehicle: 17%
Large Open Vehicle: 13%
Medium Closed Non-Vehicle: 8%
Small Open Non-Vehicle: 8%
Small Closed Non-Vehicle: 8%
Large Closed Vehicle: 8%
Medium Closed Vehicle: 4%
Large Open Non-Vehicle: 4%

Proposed Map Diversity
Medium Open Non-Vehicle: 40%
Medium Open Vehicle: 20%
Large Open Vehicle: 12%
Medium Closed Non-Vehicle: 8%
Small Open Non-Vehicle: 8%
Small Closed Non-Vehicle: 8%
Large Closed Vehicle: 4%
Medium Closed Vehicle: 0%
Large Open Non-Vehicle: 0%

The above summary shows a huge percentage increase for Medium Open Flag Non-Vehicle maps, as well as the total elimination of Medium Closed Flag Vehicle and Large Open Flag Non-Vehicle maps. This vote clearly does not address the problem of map diversity -- in fact, it will probably make the diversity worse.

We are going in circles with these map votes. In fact, I would go so far as to say they are making the problem worse. Many suggestions for changing the process were made, and there has been no evidence that any of these suggestions (or derivatives of them) have been implemented.
Post edited by Captain_Kibitz at 3/12/2003 2:22:34 AM

ZUPanther

TeamWarfare Vet

2003-03-12 02:19

All these votes have some screwed up option in them like getting rid of Katabatic (why o why?) or fixing a map that isnt broken like Damnation. If TWL actually cares what everyone thinks, just put all T2 maps in a big list let everyone vote on the 30 or so they want, and put those in the rotation. At least if you do that, you know you will be playing the maps people want.

If TWL doesn't care what people think, then just mandate a rotation and people will have to deal with it.

Satoshi

Classic Admin

2003-03-12 02:38

Can't please everyone.
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SoulBag

TeamWarfare VetTWL Contributor

2003-03-12 02:39

This is so pathetic.

SoulBag

TeamWarfare VetTWL Contributor

2003-03-12 02:57

Originally posted by: SoulBag
I would like to request that no votes be taken untill you have laid out a set of criteria for determining what maps will be put up for vote. z0dd's recomedation, on page 4, was very resonable and would be a good place to start.

Originally posted by: Satoshi
I agree, I would like to use z0dd's method. If anyone is willing to help out with that, that would be great.

Jsut and Captain_Kibitz did all the work of classifying the maps for you. You totaly ignored it.

Originally posted by: Captain_Kibitz
Any word on how you will select maps for addition or removal? Is map diversity going to be taken into account?

Originally posted by: Satoshi
Yes, diversity is a big factor in determining which maps get chosen.

Well then, let's look at the pudding and see if we can find some proof:

Current Map Diversity
Medium Open Non-Vehicle: 29%
Medium Open Vehicle: 17%
Large Open Vehicle: 13%
Medium Closed Non-Vehicle: 8%
Small Open Non-Vehicle: 8%
Small Closed Non-Vehicle: 8%
Large Closed Vehicle: 8%
Medium Closed Vehicle: 4%
Large Open Non-Vehicle: 4%

Proposed Map Diversity
Medium Open Non-Vehicle: 40%
Medium Open Vehicle: 20%
Large Open Vehicle: 12%
Medium Closed Non-Vehicle: 8%
Small Open Non-Vehicle: 8%
Small Closed Non-Vehicle: 8%
Large Closed Vehicle: 4%
Medium Closed Vehicle: 0%
Large Open Non-Vehicle: 0%

Well, Satoshi, I'm no expert, but I'd say you're full of shit!

Satoshi

Classic Admin

2003-03-12 04:12

Originally posted by: Harlequin

Hmmm it isn't. Now that is a map that should be added to the rotation. Vehicles. Semi-covered map with forcefields. You can still easily cap with the FF up, but lowering allows for a back cap.

omg a vehicle map with strategery!

There are two problems with Thundergiant. 99% of you people bitch about any map that has an objective, and there is a bomber yet no shrike.
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Satoshi

Classic Admin

2003-03-12 04:15

Originally posted by: SoulBag

Originally posted by: SoulBag
I would like to request that no votes be taken untill you have laid out a set of criteria for determining what maps will be put up for vote. z0dd's recomedation, on page 4, was very resonable and would be a good place to start.
Originally posted by: Satoshi
I agree, I would like to use z0dd's method. If anyone is willing to help out with that, that would be great.

Jsut and Captain_Kibitz did all the work of classifying the maps for you. You totaly ignored it.

Originally posted by: Captain_Kibitz
Any word on how you will select maps for addition or removal? Is map diversity going to be taken into account?
Originally posted by: Satoshi
Yes, diversity is a big factor in determining which maps get chosen.

Well then, let's look at the pudding and see if we can find some proof:
Current Map Diversity
Medium Open Non-Vehicle: 29%
Medium Open Vehicle: 17%
Large Open Vehicle: 13%
Medium Closed Non-Vehicle: 8%
Small Open Non-Vehicle: 8%
Small Closed Non-Vehicle: 8%
Large Closed Vehicle: 8%
Medium Closed Vehicle: 4%
Large Open Non-Vehicle: 4%

Proposed Map Diversity
Medium Open Non-Vehicle: 40%
Medium Open Vehicle: 20%
Large Open Vehicle: 12%
Medium Closed Non-Vehicle: 8%
Small Open Non-Vehicle: 8%
Small Closed Non-Vehicle: 8%
Large Closed Vehicle: 4%
Medium Closed Vehicle: 0%
Large Open Non-Vehicle: 0%

Well, Satoshi, I'm no expert, but I'd say you're full of shit!

Vote includes 1 medium vehicle map, 1 large non vehicle map, 2 medium non-vehicle maps. There were going to be more maps included, but again, most are being fixed and more packs are coming out. Maybe I'll just take this vote down and wait like I was going to do. This vote wasn't even half as big as I wanted. But I was forced to wait while maps are edited.
Post edited by Satoshi at 3/12/2003 4:18:22 AM

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marantz

TWL Information Minister"We have pulvarized the Infidels!"

2003-03-12 04:16

satoshi, you should have at least added in a vote for replacing hillside with a no-mpb version. the mpb has no reason being in that map :/

Satoshi

Classic Admin

2003-03-12 04:17

That will go in the vote that's coming up in a few weeks.
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marantz

TWL Information Minister"We have pulvarized the Infidels!"

2003-03-12 04:20

as well as modified BR with edited flagstand?

Satoshi

Classic Admin

2003-03-12 04:27

Not sure on that one yet.
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marantz

TWL Information Minister"We have pulvarized the Infidels!"

2003-03-12 04:28

might as well put it up for vote, i mean what harm will it do?

Kinesthetic

TWL Member

2003-03-12 04:43

I don't give a fuck about diversity if it is not fun to play. I'm sick of wasting competitive match time on shitty maps that do nothing but drive myself and my team insane.

I think the majority of people feel this way.

Satoshi

Classic Admin

2003-03-12 05:13

Originally posted by: Kinesthetic

I don't give a fuck about diversity if it is not fun to play. I'm sick of wasting competitive match time on shitty maps that do nothing but drive myself and my team insane.

I think the majority of people feel this way.

I agree with this 100% as well.
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Dimiotrix

TWL Member

2003-03-12 05:14

Keep Kata and add Starfallen

Cinerous and Skylight are fun maps

edit* Spelling
Post edited by Dimiotrix at 3/12/2003 5:18:05 AM

War

TeamWarfare Vet

2003-03-12 05:32

Was the reason for Kata removal because of all the gay speed bumps? And for the love of god, why do we need to change the flag stands now? Pussy cappers?

I hate vehicles with a pashion, but I don't see a reason to pull DBF. I get tired of shrike whores bitching so throw them some kibbles and bits. Right now the only maps that should be considered to be removed are the gay ones that were added by the last vote. (ironic aint it?)

We have maps like subzero, that other ice one, Conf, Drifts, Myrk and others all out there. These are GOOD ladder maps.

And no gay objective maps.

AtomicKaiser

fwf

2003-03-12 05:34

Originally posted by: Kinesthetic

I don't give a fuck about diversity if it is not fun to play. I'm sick of wasting competitive match time on shitty maps that do nothing but drive myself and my team insane.

I think the majority of people feel this way.

Good call.

I voted to have DBF removed for this same reason.

I voted for kata in favor of starfallen, but I still think it should be added.

Perhaps that could be a part of the next vote?
(I'll have to see what these map packs have to offer, though.)

Bibe

TeamWarfare Vet

2003-03-12 05:34

Originally posted by: Kinesthetic

I don't give a fuck about diversity if it is not fun to play. I'm sick of wasting competitive match time on shitty maps that do nothing but drive myself and my team insane.

I think the majority of people feel this way.

w0rd.
The #1 reason that europe picks maps rather than has random maps picked is the mappool. It would be so cool to have the TWL system, but as eu. has experienced, playing shit gay maps isnt fun, and to an extent we prefer playing the same maps because they at least make comp games fun

jsut

TeamWarfare VetTWL Contributor

2003-03-12 06:03

Originally posted by: Blotter

petition to make it "replace dbf with starfallen", not kata :x

if the vote to remove dbf passes and the vote to substitute katabatic fails i think you should just add starfallen.

jsut's cheats scripts