Comp Mod & the TWL: Mine Disking & Mine Skins

The only drawback I've seen to adding mine-disking back into Comp Mod is the same problem it created before: maps become mine-fields.

It doesn't bother me at all on the pubs, especially on lighter maps. But I can imagine that it will really add a random element to Competition play, especially on darker maps.

It makes sense that this mine-field effect of mine disking will promote the use of colored mine skins in competition.
Last I heard, this was illegal. But the TWL may as well legalize it.

Or, Comp Mod may as well change the color of the mine skin in the game.

I like mine disking. But, I beleive it comes at the cost of actually tricking people with deployed mines. I also believe there needs to be some method of legalizing mine skins either in the game or on the TWL, if MD is to stay.

Discuss.

perhaps when thrown mines are one colour and when they deploy they become another ? dunno if its possible. just a thought

Originally posted by: ] jEstEr [

perhaps when thrown mines are one colour and when they deploy they become another ? dunno if its possible. just a thought

What purpose would that serve?

I think Rilke has a strong point here.

unless things have changed with previous patches i believe t2 still has a maximum mine limit of 16 mines per team. if any more are thrown they will detonate before they 'set'.

Your correct there is a limit, 16 mines isnt so bad....

I believe z0dd changed the default mine limit up to 25. I agree with rilke's thoughts here. Illegal or not, people will use custom mine skins. Whether TWl should make it legal is another point.

Post edited by Reprisal at 8/11/2002 4:05:12 PM

or have all mines explode after 3minutes
______________
|311|-shroom

That wouldn't work at all. Mines play a pretty big part on defense. Whether its HD mining entrances or LD Mining HO routes and/or flag.

Originally posted by: Evil Poptart

Your correct there is a limit, 16 mines isnt so bad....

You can only deploy 16 mines.

compmod = 25 mines

Too bad we have to have a SL and mine disk. Too much advantage for LD IMO.

contrary to popular belief, LD can actually get minedisced by the offense

given the mine deploy limit, whether 16 or 25, z0dd?, deliberately deployed mine fields are also threatened by mine disking.

So far I can forsee:

What we get for mine disking:

1) mine disking

2) random mine deaths (almost like random lightning)

3) mine skins (whether legal or not)

What we give:

1) tripping up opponents on deliberately deployed, difficult to see mines

2) deliberately deployed mine fields.


The question therefore becomes: which skills/gameplay factors do you prefer for a mod tailored to competition? Do you want a new skill in dueling/killing that is mine disking? Or do you want to keep mines for their traditional role--for tripping up players through deliberately deployed mines and mine fields?

In theory, I think the latter is more conducive to competition. Too much is given in order to make room for mine disking. And yet MD is fun and does not imbalance the game otherwise, so it's a hard decision. But it's a decision with serious consequences nonetheless.

What are you thoughts on this trade off?
Post edited by Rilke at 8/11/2002 4:52:38 PM

Originally posted by: Farty

contrary to popular belief, LD can actually get minedisced by the offense

exactly. not to mention the HO are quite fast and alot hard to hit. unless your name is MadRabbit and are a total chainwhore

i think the better people get at mine discing, the less minefields theres going to be (i hope). Also, im sure theres a number of people out there that use colored mines, and colored everything else for that matter. yes it sucks, but how are we going to stop it without using the ever buggering CRC checking.
Post edited by Dirty Sanchez. at 8/11/2002 5:01:41 PM

I like the idea of 25 mines and mine field =P Its kinda funny either setting one up purposly or accidently and watchin poeple ski through em =p

I remember on Slapdash me and my friend would get a bomber with ammo pack and just fly around dropping tons of mines on the roads =p

Then watch gravcycles fly over em and go boom.

the minefield thing was why i posted this:

Originally posted by: Mad Monk

mine discing really just isn't needed. what would be more reasonable is giving the ld an opportunity to use hand grenades again instead of needing to carry flares. this will never be 100% useful in a game where the missile launcher can track individuals, however the heat signature dropoff used to be significantly faster in a previous patch. back then it was a decision to make for the ld based on how good a skiier he was. now there's no decision to make: carry flares or eat a missile.

Originally posted by: Farty

contrary to popular belief, LD can actually get minedisced by the offense

The point is farty, LD are "light" defense. When you give them "heavy" weapons like a mine disk it ruins the balance of the game. Not to mention nerf mortar, then take away heavy mobility, the flow of the game is being tossed all out of wack.

everytime you mine disc, god kills a kitten

a team could run behind their base with an inv at the start of each map, deploy 25 mines and eliminate mine disking from the game

Originally posted by: raggy_

unless things have changed with previous patches i believe t2 still has a maximum mine limit of 16 mines per team. if any more are thrown they will detonate before they 'set'.

A side-effect of that is that HDs like me will not be able to defend bases like we used to. Mines are an integral part of any well-defended area. Having them tossed around the field in a vain attempt to mine-disk someone severly decreases my ability to adequalty defend.

I doubt having the mine-disk is worth that.



wtf?!

There are alternatives to mine discing that wouldn't be hard to implement, but I'm not going to explain it again.
--
vawlk

mine discing was a non issue in the uva build of comp mod, useful but not at all over powering

fucking stop whining about it pussies

however

the SL range needs to be taken back down to 16 or whatever

20 is ridiculous

its not the mind discing that people are bitching about, its the missed mine discs and the leftover littered mines.

Plus its still new, give it a month and people will be pulling of MAMDs regularly.
--
vawlk

This is true, people will get better at mine disking, but voidslinger's, mine, and others' points is that it may come at the cost of traditional defense.

If so, which would you prefer, traditional defensive abilities with mines or mine disking?

Guess that's silly. Defenders can mine/plas and cause serious damage indoors.
Post edited by Rilke at 8/11/2002 8:44:22 PM

The damage radius on the disk is 7.5 meters. If you are playing HD and can't deploy mines because your team mates can't hit a mine with that much damage radius then too bad.

This is irrelevant because we havn't even committed on a compmod ladder.

Vlasic|TWL - Operations Manager
^i^Vlasic - Clueless Leader
Vlasic - all around smeghead
STAY BITTER!!

Two sets of mines - regular mines that deploy like standardized mines and a set of hazardous mines for MD'ing that replaces deployment with a non-damaging explosion such as normal mines do - may solve many of the problems I see here, with no client-side modding. The inventory list lets you select your weapons, armor, pack, grenade type, and mine type, but since base has only "Mine" or "NONE", many don't notice it.

On another note, should there be a strategy in gameplay about the balancing between the mines you deploy and the mines you MD with?
---------------
"To be an outcast from CTF is to be a llama. To be an outcast from anything else is to be a legend."
- Red Shifter, Captain of Delerium, #1 team in TWL Siege

Just adapt to the mine/disk. In T1 you had 25 mines per team, same as in the current compmod. Cappers shouldn't carry mines, you'll just keep that HoF or flag LD supplied with them.

Originally posted by: Koko

Just adapt to the mine/disk. In T1 you had 25 mines per team, same as in the current compmod. Cappers shouldn't carry mines, you'll just keep that HoF or flag LD supplied with them.

you're forgetting that cappers use mines to avoid the elf, which wasn't used extensively in t1 (which let them drop mines before starting routes)

Originally posted by: Vlasic

This is irrelevant because we havn't even committed on a compmod ladder.

For potential future consideration, then. :P

Originally posted by: raggy_

you're forgetting that cappers use mines to avoid the elf, which wasn't used extensively in t1 (which let them drop mines before starting routes)

Bah, you're right, damn elf.


Post edited by Koko at 8/11/2002 9:55:21 PM

how about u kill the lightning on maps before making a big deal about fucking mines which people already trip on anyways cuz people drop them for elf

yes
lightning is gay

how many of you get struck by lightning and go "omg that was a great feature of this game"
Post edited by s h r o o m at 8/11/2002 11:55:42 PM

There is a setting that can make it so that lightning strikes but never hits players. That's what it ought to be set to if it's part of a map's atmosphere.

Keep MD the speed at which a capper is going to hit the flag is supposed to be on par with T1, which means the elf will have limited use on certain maps and practically none on others.

I hate to see mine discing introduced again. I think the SL range should be dropped to about 5 ft..

make more armors. like 7. and laser turrets. and then the game will be super cool and not gay at all...
----

Lightning is very, very stupid. Whosever idea it was needs to be enlisted in a mental hospital.

To solve the mine problem, lower the mines back to their original limit. If teams have mines that are getting left all over the place because of ELF deflection and mine-discing, it's their loss and their fault when they can't deploy more for actual defense.

---

Hi i dont bring the funny, if you see me trying to please flame me