My Findings

sup again fellaz..I ran a thread asking age and location of you guys and alot of peeps responded..thanks ...but I've doing the math I've come up with an average age of players to be around 28.7 years old which means we have alot of "mature" peeps playing this games compared to young snapper heads. Now I'm not insinuating anything or pointing fingers at anyone individual or clan but we are all adults here and should act like one. What I'm getting at is all these talks about cheating and shit. For one we aren't in elementary school anymore and there is no need for it. I do know some peeps have been accused and some haven't. I myself have been called a cheater or accused of using an aimbot in our server and frankly it pisses me off and those peeps feel the true wrath of RCON commands The funny thing is we use MAM and CI constantly except during matches which brings me to my next point. It seems that most peeps would like to have CI and/or MAM used during matches and I can't understand why this is a problem. I read someones post stating that we as players in a sense are what makes TWL what it is, however the admins running TWL do a great job but without players or clans on these ladders what is TWL? So I say this, If at all possible lets have a vote and see who is for or against running this anti cheat programs during matches.All being adults and claiming none of our clans cheat there should be nobody against running these programs. Ok I've also read that I believe CI is too "powerful" because certain commands can be used to lag out or boot players with no trace which brings me to my first point. WE ARE ALL ADULTS and hopefully all professional clans and couldn't fathom this happening but then again who knows. I just get tired of all these arguments about this person/clan cheating and yada yada. I thought along with many others that servers/matches now running PURE should be the best way to have a cheat free match, but after reading some more seen there are exe files that can be hacked and not detected by PURE but can be detected by CI and/or MAM so I can't see the problem with having these run during matches. that to me would finally end all this shit about cheating and weed out the ones that do. I'm sure this has been brought up in past posts but lets do something about this shit. We all make TWL what it is and I believe we should have a say in what programs should be ran during matches...these are the thougts of [DR]FlatLine-^-----[SS] thanks for your time..peace as always

one thing I wanna add. I know with CI/MAM running the admin has mad controls over what goes on thru RCON so I noticed there is alot of Observers on the list and propose this. This may have been mentioned but why not if a clan requests an Observer for a match that they are allowed to run CI/MAM and have that Observer change RCON password so during the match nobody on either clan would have RCON access to be able to mess with anything .Of course before match RCON can be set to Temp so opposing teams can check settings but once that is verified then Observer locks RCON and the game proceeds..please enlighten me if I'm thinking wrong on this...thx...peace
Post edited by [DR]FlatLine-^--------[SS] at 5/31/2003 1:22:05 PM

Okay, our average age is 28.7 years, we're mature adults, and yet we had our Allied Assault ladders shut down because of rampant cheating and bickering.

Im sorry - Im sure you're a great guy, but I dont know you, I dont trust you, and Im not going to give you the tools to kick me or one of my teammates during a match without any trace. Even if you dont do it, what happens if one of my team mates drops out of the server inexplicably?

We dont need it. It will cause far more problems than it will ever fix.

http://www.teamwarfare.com/forums/showthread.asp?threadid=56294&forumid=37&lastpage=1

I am trying to get the same thing, but you should add matchwatch to your list too


The only prob i see... are there enough OC's to do this?

I tell you this much, if there are not, but twl chooses to do your idea I would volunteer my time as an OC so we can see this happen!

cpl, you failed to read his post (like you did mine)... maybe read it again and look @ what he suggested, then then reply.
Post edited by ·|ÐöðM|·olord at 5/31/2003 1:54:04 PM

I heard there was still a way to figure out who kicked a player? if that were to happen.

I would volunteer as well oLord.

You mean the average of people who replied to your post is 28.7 years old. I doubt it is representive of the average age of people playing SH.

You do raise some valid points though.

Originally posted by: |OCG|UnDead

I hope the admins do consider MatchWatch created by Blackbart of the IW as well as MAM (moh admin mod) which is much more robust then codesecurity. http://www.invisiblewarriors.com/iw

Matchwatch works with MAM to take 7 screenshots of each player prior to match.

Screenshots MAM (Moh Admin Mod) with Matchwatch or CI can do:
Player In Action
Player Scores
Player Models
Player Files in Directory c:/program/eagames/mohaa
Player Files in Directory Mainta and Main folders
Player Path to directory of files
Player Key Binds

Plus Matchwatch can be monitored by a Admin or Observer so we would put some of the observers to good use Personally I would like an observer at every match running matchwatch. It can do so much more then code security which is very limited to what it can do. Also check http://www.mohadmin.com for MAM (Moh Admin Mod info. Though MAM hasn't been updated there in a while it is updated and comes with the new version of CI(Counter Intellegence).

How about matchwatch also?

Edit*** I just talked ot undead, he said he would volunteer also if matchwatch and MAM/CI were used.
Post edited by ·|ÐöðM|·olord at 5/31/2003 2:07:43 PM

So you guys haven't had the bad experience of some others. Maybe all the leaders of these clans on TWL are adults, but i'm still not gonna trust them. Would you trust Ted Bundy based simply on the fact that he was an adult?? During a match we have seen players be kicked, sv_pure be turned off, and other various things WITHOUT the all powerful commands of MAM. The people who did these things were caught, because through rcon their actions can be traced.

I for one am not eager to trust anyone on this game. You don't know who cheats or how bad or what kind of technical knowledge they have in order to prevent their detection. Play the game with CS, ASK for OC's if you need them in your match, and understand that forced screenshots are the single best cheat detection out there. If someone's going to cheat, I believe it is not about preventing them from doing it. Why? because then they can scream "accusation," "no proof" and other such BS. You catch them in the action and they will either leave the community really fast or just get caught.

that's all, lets please not argue the same things again.

I think the main point here is that knowone cares for code security at all?......are you reading this TWL?
-Ace

Originally posted by: ·|ÐöðM|·olord

cpl, you failed to read his post (like you did mine)... maybe read it again and look @ what he suggested, then then reply.

I guess I have to plead guilty to not reading his second post and your post came after mine, so yes, I also failed to read it.

Now that I have, I see no reason to change my earlier comments.

besides changing the configs to log (via the qconsole.log file) rcon commands, i've seen some new developements that also log ALL rcon access. i, myself, just with qconsole.log have successfully found a way to trace who did the command (by IP) and what command they asked for. obviously, if you see "rcon command" and then see "player disconnected" the very next line of text, somethin is up. i think too many ppl are going about this based on what else they have read in forums.

i challenege everyone to actually download these programs, learn them fully (the admins have and are doing this) and then think about both the pros AND the cons to each.

one CON that i have already ran across is that a clan had CI running (we said sure, we don't care if you run it). but they left the anti land sharking thing on. which means that you can't jump on a ladder and press USE, you just die. they didn't know exactly how to turn it off, and a big problem came about because of it. MAM can "quit" ppl without showing up on anyone else's console. all of this can be monitored and used correctly, but the time and effort to do that, and the man power (OCs)....... you really think they believe that CS is almighty compared to MAM/CI? they decided that for match play, that CS best fit the situation. they are looking for new stuff, so it's not like they just decided CS then left it alone.


lastly, the REASON i joined the OCs is that i saw there was a shortage of them, and i figured if i would want to ask one to be in my match, and i would complain if none were available, then i should become one myself.

FOR THE LAST TIME, i'm NOT GRIM!

I would vote no on those programs! We as in =VX9= were on the ladders of OGL and left ogl completely due to the fact it took almost as long for all the screenshots and other stuff to run as it did to play the match! It was overkill! I would just assume play against the cheats rather then play with mam and ci! Cheats can be beaten! but to take 2 hours for a match with all that crap running is rediculous! and if you think there isnt a way around those as well then you are sorely mistaken! a cheater knows all the ways around anything!

the SSs on MAM don't take long at all.

FOR THE LAST TIME, i'm NOT GRIM!

its my understanding with CI/MAM running it will detect any no fog,wall hacks or any hacked exe files. if this is incorrect please correct me.But if it is correct there would be no reason for SS's unless a violation appears on the screen. An OC would simply change RCOn password so nobody would could access and cause any bullshit. Now I understand nobody really knows nobody but I would hope we can have some faith in TWL and the OCs they provide. One who would rather play with cheats has issues and should have their heads examined. Yes there are ways around cheats but why not use any and all resources possible to fight it?...peace

reaper , not just the screenshots , but the whole thing it goes through! and the cheats are very beatable!
Post edited by Pvt.Stones=VX9= at 6/2/2003 10:03:06 AM

there are ways around all of those cheat protectors! you name it there is! period! i dont need to prove it! just trust!

well do me a favor...our server IP is 66.151.182.66 lets us know when you're coming..we'll make server PURE run CI/MAM and see what you can do bro.

I am goign to make a few quick comments here.

You answered your own question in a way. We all should be behaving one way but aren't. Since we aren't we can't just give access to certain thigns in good faith. The behavior changes and now we have reason to. I have more issues with the "adults" than kids most of the time in matches. Also we only got posts from a handfull of MOH:AA players. The post proves that the majority of forum active MOH:AA players is 28.7 not MOH:AA in it's entirety.

If you read another post I made in a thread a few days back I am looking at MatchWatch and talking to an admin in OGL about their experiences with it. Until my research is over we will stay on our current course. A decision will be coming soon though.

Everyone does have a limited say in what goes on in TWL. An example is this post. I get emails with suggestions all the time and I spend time looking into and testign alot of what I get. All the admins do. Some decisions take more time to research than others. Mainly because we don't want to keep changing rules and programs everytime someone finds a program they like. As for the "Adult issue", people will get treated as they treat others no matter what age they are. Actions speak louder than words and actions need to be taken before moods can change so to speak. Quite frankly some of the posts in here and the course language used at times shows that nothign has really changed.

Post edited by ^SpaZ^ at 6/2/2003 12:46:00 AM

i can't change anymore, i'm in permanent time out

FOR THE LAST TIME, i'm NOT GRIM!