When is the next BT town meeting

I would like to know when the next meeting is? I know a couple people from other clans who are interested in putting their 2 cents in also. Thanks

Since the big issues were settled in the first one I dont really see a need for another one right now. If you have anything in particular that you want to bring up, this is the place - or you can send me an email if you prefer that.

OK. The Breakthrough rate of fire for the STG was cool, I would like to see that back. I think the rate of fire for the pistols were also changed I would like to see that back. It also seems that the damage for the lee enfield sniper rifle was decreased... i would like it to be back to normal. SMG's are powerful once again, i don't mind that but those are the things i would like to see back. Thanks

Originally posted by: >TvS< FonZ [.HDays.]
OK. The Breakthrough rate of fire for the STG was cool, I would like to see that back. I think the rate of fire for the pistols were also changed I would like to see that back. It also seems that the damage for the lee enfield sniper rifle was decreased... i would like it to be back to normal. SMG's are powerful once again, i don't mind that but those are the things i would like to see back. Thanks

Agreed

yes! yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes...to the macks

Should have left the game how it was.

Should have showed up to the meeting...

Meeting for Breakthrough, or work... hmmm lol. I can't speak for anyone else but money is just a little more important.
Post edited by >TvS< FonZ [.HDays.] at 10/27/2003 5:58:15 PM

The town meeting, I heard was sopposed to add/change rules. Not change the game it self. I have no problem with the standing league rules.

I heard other comments after the meeting such as, "BT's settings for TWL are now like SH" But why change this game like SH? Just go back to SH!

Remember in life nothing or almost nothing is static. Rules can be changed if the majority rule. I was also working at the time of this meeting or I would have put in some input. We'll have to see how the ladders go after CoD is released and of course when the BT patch is released.

Originally posted by: >V< VoraX
The town meeting, I heard was sopposed to add/change rules. Not change the game it self. I have no problem with the standing league rules.

I heard other comments after the meeting such as, "BT's settings for TWL are now like SH" But why change this game like SH? Just go back to SH!

^ Exactly. It totally defeats the purpose of buying the game or dln an illegal copy. Lord waster of my time and money.

Agreed,why are we playing BT if it's Spearhead in the settings.If this is BT lets play it!We didn't bend over backwards for the Aa community to change Spearhead back to AA why do it now!Maybe if we woulda more Aa clans might of attempted to play SH

Originally posted by: >TvS< Scooby [SDoo*]
Agreed,why are we playing BT if it's Spearhead in the settings.If this is BT lets play it!We didn't bend over backwards for the Aa community to change Spearhead back to AA why do it now!Maybe if we woulda more Aa clans might of attempted to play SH

^ Another great point. Things that make you say hmmmm

And you guys were WHERE during the first meeting?

________________________________________________________________________________________

T. Wrecks
News Staff Manager
Teamwarfare News Team

I was at the halo town meeting.

Originally posted by: Otm Shank
I was at the halo town meeting.

Multitask man, multitask.

________________________________________________________________________________________

T. Wrecks
News Staff Manager
Teamwarfare News Team

One question what clans showed up to this meeting? Just a shot in the dark... but my guess would be D12C and UNO. If there were other please let us know thanks.

It really doesn't matter where I was at,what matters is there is a few problems with it.Are we playing BT? Is this the stock version of BT out of the box,or is this the version that was decided on by the town meeting?Why couldn't we tweak the stg back and allow the russian rifle the nades it comes with, with my store bought copy.I really like what you did with the smg's just don't understand why this was a BT town meeting and not a founders vote!The meeting was a great idea but the meeting decisions shoulda been put up to a vote not decided by the 25 to 100 people there!
Post edited by >TvS< Scooby [SDoo*] at 10/27/2003 10:29:23 PM

Originally posted by: T. Wrecks
And you guys were WHERE during the first meeting?

I was campaigning for Governor of California.

Originally posted by: >TvS< FonZ [.HDays.]
One question what clans showed up to this meeting? Just a shot in the dark... but my guess would be D12C and UNO. If there were other please let us know thanks.

For your inforamtion no D12C was not at the meeting. I deliberately stayed out of it.

Even after the meeting the mod was put up for trial before being made mandatory. This was discussed beforehand. The feel was that the engine was good but the weapons being dumbed down wasn't. The mod was to get a spark for teams who were on the edge to make the final leap and join BT. There was opportunity for say even after the meeting for those that cared enough.

If I get enough opposition to the current mod from team founders then I will revisit this entire idea.
Post edited by ^SpaZ^ at 10/27/2003 11:07:18 PM


[D12C]SpaZ
Teamwarfare Competition Director
"If there's one thing that comes across crisply and clearly in this one spoken word, it is that this guy is very responsible, inordinately busy, and not accustomed to or particularly appreciative of having people mess with him." -TWrecks

How would you like it spaz a simple e-mail or messages on ICQ,I really don't use mIrc so would one of these work!

email so I can keep track

[D12C]SpaZ
Teamwarfare Competition Director
"If there's one thing that comes across crisply and clearly in this one spoken word, it is that this guy is very responsible, inordinately busy, and not accustomed to or particularly appreciative of having people mess with him." -TWrecks

OK D12C weren't at the meeting then what clan founders agreed to this and what ladders do they play in? Not trying to start anything I just wanna know where people stand. Thanks
Post edited by >TvS< FonZ [.HDays.] at 10/28/2003 12:30:19 AM

Originally posted by: >TvS< FonZ [.HDays.]
OK D12C weren't at the meeting then what clan founders agreed to this and what ladders do they play in? Not trying to start anything I just wanna know where people stand. Thanks

i stopped by to streak, and when i did, i noticed a plethera of teams there. not a bunch from just one, but i noticed a good amount of people there.

you stated that you wanted a "founders vote" on this thing. i'll share with you my problems on a founders vote:

i am a co-founder, ramlbin bob created the team on TWL, so he's the official "founder" for TWL's concern. that means that even i, who is just as much involved, have a jack crap's say about it. like the MPSH realism tweak for SH ladders was done with a founder meeting and vote. though i know many of the teams, the founder is not the one who is the most aware of the different settings, what they do.... my point is that the founder is not always the best person to represent a clan, and to suggest ideas about any changes. as easy as it is to have a founders meeting, or vote, i personally find it very restrictive to how many people can put their 2 cents in. what if one founder is out of town, or at work... he can't say anything. what if 2 ppl from the same clan have completely different views, and have valid points for both sides. wouldn't you like to hear that, as compaired to hearing one side of a story, and his arguement, and no strong arguement for the counter-point?

when i stopped into the town meeting, it appeared that there was a good mix of clans and people with ideas. i don't even think there was a lot of uno, maybe a few, but they weren't running it over, it seemed to be running very smoothly, my streaking barely even halted the meeting, they kept going (They were really getting into it... in a good way)... i almost felt bad for streaking, but i said i would.
------------------------------------------------

Homepage for the most awesomest demo uploader known to TWL-kind

my b-day is march 13th... go me, and post in my b-day thread:
Fetus and Grin Bday keg fund
The Grinster, making it a habit to get forum banned once, per game EXPANSION.

Originally posted by: {GP} Grin Reaper

Originally posted by: >TvS< FonZ [.HDays.]
OK D12C weren't at the meeting then what clan founders agreed to this and what ladders do they play in? Not trying to start anything I just wanna know where people stand. Thanks

i stopped by to streak, and when i did, i noticed a plethera of teams there. not a bunch from just one, but i noticed a good amount of people there.

you stated that you wanted a "founders vote" on this thing. i'll share with you my problems on a founders vote:

i am a co-founder, ramlbin bob created the team on TWL, so he's the official "founder" for TWL's concern. that means that even i, who is just as much involved, have a jack crap's say about it. like the MPSH realism tweak for SH ladders was done with a founder meeting and vote. though i know many of the teams, the founder is not the one who is the most aware of the different settings, what they do.... my point is that the founder is not always the best person to represent a clan, and to suggest ideas about any changes. as easy as it is to have a founders meeting, or vote, i personally find it very restrictive to how many people can put their 2 cents in. what if one founder is out of town, or at work... he can't say anything. what if 2 ppl from the same clan have completely different views, and have valid points for both sides. wouldn't you like to hear that, as compaired to hearing one side of a story, and his arguement, and no strong arguement for the counter-point?

when i stopped into the town meeting, it appeared that there was a good mix of clans and people with ideas. i don't even think there was a lot of uno, maybe a few, but they weren't running it over, it seemed to be running very smoothly, my streaking barely even halted the meeting, they kept going (They were really getting into it... in a good way)... i almost felt bad for streaking, but i said i would.

That is so off topic and pointless, but thanks for wasting my time in reading that. I think I will wait for SpaZ's reply...

His point is only one member per team is really needed there , so If you couldn't muster one person from your squad to show up , it must not of mattered that much to you. Is that an adequate translation , Grin? Oh , and the reason I wasn't there is because I don't play BT so I had no reason.

Originally posted by: DieselFuel!
His point is only one member per team is really needed there , so If you couldn't muster one person from your squad to show up , it must not of mattered that much to you. Is that an adequate translation , Grin? Oh , and the reason I wasn't there is because I don't play BT so I had no reason.

that was part of my point, that i think a clan interested could of at least had 1 person represent. also my point was completely on topic... you asked what "founders" decided this. i brought up why i thought that town meetings were much better than the proposed "founders vote" i also noted how everyone had a chance to show. it was advertised well in advance.

also fonz, i saw you post in another thread that you said "what if someone has to work, or just has better things to do" in reference to why they can't show for a town meeting. work, that's fine... but not everyone in your clan works the same hours, SOMEONE can make it. secondly, if you have "better things to do" than to show up in a town meeting and voice your opinion, then you don't CaRe? enough to bitch about the decisions made, right? oh, you shouldn't have time to bitch either, because you have "better things to do."

those were my points (and then some) which were on topic of why there was a town meeting as opposed to a founders vote, and why i don't think anyone wants to hear you bitch about who was there and why you weren't there.
------------------------------------------------

Homepage for the most awesomest demo uploader known to TWL-kind

my b-day is march 13th... go me, and post in my b-day thread:
Fetus and Grin Bday keg fund
The Grinster, making it a habit to get forum banned once, per game EXPANSION.

http://www.teamwarfare.com/forums/showthread.asp?forumid=110&threadid=91283

[D12C]SpaZ
Teamwarfare Competition Director
"If there's one thing that comes across crisply and clearly in this one spoken word, it is that this guy is very responsible, inordinately busy, and not accustomed to or particularly appreciative of having people mess with him." -TWrecks

http://www.teamwarfare.com/forums/showthread.asp?forumid=110&threadid=91283

In reply to you decision there SpaZ. You wouldn't mind the competition dropping out because of this great mod. Yes I am complaining. I did not buy Breakthrough to play Spearhead, nor did you buy Spearhead to play Allied Assault. You still haven't said what clans were represented in the meeting... The fact stands that no other clans besides D12C have voiced their opinions on my threads saying that you weren't at the meeting... What clans felt this SH mod was the way to go. If there are other clans besides D12C and UNO that feel this way, then please surprise me. So far the founder of FtA agrees with keeping BT as BT, the founder of TvS does as well, and a captain (not a founder of >V<) Vorax has stated this also. That's 3 vs. 2 that we know of... Not trying to sound like a prick, but it seems the actual community is being represented wrongfully. Yes, there were no representitives from TvS, but you have to remember that people have lives and can't always showup to this things regardless if it's 1 or 5. I think you jumped the gun with the mod. Seeing how realism mods are still being argued over. This is brand new and you start taking it to heart. C'mon, it's the community who want it changed, the people who are your competition.
Post edited by >TvS< FonZ [.HDays.] at 10/28/2003 5:20:31 PM

I thought BT was dead??? Anyway , you put BT back to stock and you will prolly lose half of the teams on some already puny ladders , IMO...

Because the meeting was my idea, I have tried to stay out of the coversations and let Spaz handle things - just to show that I am not trying to "force my will" on other people. However, I do want to make one thing very clear:

I am very proud of the things that we accomplished in that meeting....not just the decisions that were made, but also the way in which they were made. I "walked into the room" with 5 or 6 problems that were keeping the BT ladders from opening, and left with solutions that were offered by, discussed by, and ultimately adopted by people who play on the ladders. The Admins did not make the decisions, the people present did. In addition to the things that I knew needed work, the people there brought up several topics that we had never even thought about, and we fixed them, too.

Did we have universal attendance? No, of course not. But there were enough people there from enough different teams to make the decisions legitimate. And you know what? The people that did show up cared enough about the future of the ladders to take the time to put aside team rivalries and personal interests and work to make things better for everyone. The Breakthrough ladders are running because of them, and we all owe them a debt of gratitude.

I wasnt at the meeting. Maybe i should have been so i could have asked to make the mod like Duke Nukem 3d.

Originally posted by: MonkeyBoogers
I wasnt at the meeting. Maybe i should have been so i could have asked to make the mod like Duke Nukem 3d.

Dang, you should have been there, that vote lost by one.

Originally posted by: Cpt Kearns

Originally posted by: MonkeyBoogers
I wasnt at the meeting. Maybe i should have been so i could have asked to make the mod like Duke Nukem 3d.

Dang, you should have been there, that vote lost by one.

Oh the HORROR!!
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Pain stains the carpet when you run into us.

I didn't buy Breakthrough to play Spearhead or Allied Assault either.

I would of made the mod like Unreal Tournament.

Ok so what clans were there? And why is there no room for change? Scooby brought up that we may drop one of these ladders, and basically my point is why would we play BT when there's SH. We would probably choose BT over SH because of it being different, but with the mod it takes that out of the picture. And another question what clan(s) would leave?

BT runs better than SH. (somewhat)

There are new weapons in BT (especially that love it or hate it landmine)

MPSH realism was voted on months ago and was voted to continue to BT at the meeting. Also, when we initially said we would use stock, we were getting "stock sucks" from alot of people (almost twice as many that are complaining about this mod.)

Don't say this is admin "pet project" because I preferred stock from the beginning but I put that aside because the community wanted MPSH. Regardless of that fact, I put hours into discussion, implenting and making this mod.

We did make some changes to MPSH that were to cure "old" problems. We can tweak it to the communities liking but dropping it totally doesn't look to be an option because I have experienced the communities opinion since 6 or so months ago when we voted.
Post edited by PhattyB at 10/28/2003 7:30:56 PM

Without going by offical logs which I no longer have I will list some team names who were present or "streaked"

OCG,BR1,WAC,UNO,RP,420th,TxR,DR,TDI,a² and some other names who sledom post in the forums but who did take the time to show. The meeting was long and tedious going over every concern over and over until agreed upon. After all this work was put in by them and the man hours of the admins and 2 others who worked on the mod for over a week and that's before being placed on the website for testing and comments.. I am very hesitant to now just go and remove the mod being used. Alot of people put in alot of effort for the stragglers to now just come in and demand changes. There aren't a whole lot of teams on the ladder now and seeing as how either decision on this mod will have teams leaving, I will choose to accomodate those that did put in the time and effort in this community.

forgot to mention the streaker: GP.
Post edited by ^SpaZ^ at 10/28/2003 7:43:01 PM


[D12C]SpaZ
Teamwarfare Competition Director
"If there's one thing that comes across crisply and clearly in this one spoken word, it is that this guy is very responsible, inordinately busy, and not accustomed to or particularly appreciative of having people mess with him." -TWrecks

Can I be chairman at the next meeting?
I would like to make a motion of ipso facto primo, or better known as "what the hell am i talking about".
Actually, I feel that we all have choices to either play or stray. I think communication is the key when it is offered. Not taking advantage of it allows voices to go unheard. Just like voting, America has lots of ppl complaining about our govt. but how many of those ppl actually vote? The numbers are actually frighteningly low. Politics 101. Dr. MonkeyBoogers.

That was not a meeting with that many people. That was just a few people shooting ideas. People will not always be able to attend a specific meeting at a specific time. You want to allow everyone to voice there opinions then run a poll on the subject in question for about a week. Then everyone will have there opportunity to talk. Lets stop closed door meetings and bring this out public with some poll options. This is a community where everyone deserves to vote if its the ladder they play on. Not everyone can attend it so it might as well be called closed door. The best thing to do is, not take and decide in the meeting but bring the suggestions out publically and say this is what we are thinking about.

IF you do not do it this way, you will keep finding people that do not like certain aspects to the game settings set and will always be running ladders that are not even a quarter of the way filled. A lot of heads were turned away in Spearhead cause of some settings. Dont make the same mistake with Breakthrough. Allow everyone to see the subject in question and let it be voted on by poll. Then you will see more interest in the game and more teams on ladders.

Put the lean/move back into the game and I dont care what you do to the rest.

But if one more were suggestable, lets put back the spawn killing.

Suggestion, find a default Realism for the ladder and leave it. If it becomes necessary to edit it, get a poll for doing so. In the meantime, create a invitational only ladder if you want to be editing mods.

Someones gotta say it.

I know, Bouncer you have your choice, right?
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Spaz, theres a reason why these ladders have not been filled and I feel its because these are ladders that have settings that everyone is not happy with. For a game that is top rated among five other games and TWL being one of the two most popular leagues along with OGL then not having these ladders filled tells you there are other problems. I am only trying to be as honest with you as I can.

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So its clear, when I say closed doors its more becaue it may not fit a whole lot of peoples schedules. The genorosity is noted, I am sure, but the fact still remains open discussions for decided things that would pleasable to all need to be polled and left open for a given amount of time. This game is on the edge of fading out a lot especially with COD on the release tomarrow. The only game to be enjoyed the most was Allied Assault, but it had a missing link; sv_pure. If we try to focus on bring the game back as close to Allied Assault as possible then the ladders will be more enjoyable to everyone. Just an opinion.

Post edited by =C O M= Bouncer at 10/28/2003 9:15:54 PM

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